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[Music]

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you're in the radio you're in the power

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Cass was Jean Steinberg the co-host is

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Chris O'Brien and this week we have

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Jerry Clark now Jerry Clark joined us

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before in eulogizing some dear departed

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UFO investigators but now we have them

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all to himself

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no eulogy is necessary although we might

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bring up some of those people in terms

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of his life experiences

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now Jerry Clark has been a UFO

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investigator for longer than many people

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have been alive how Jerry did you first

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become attracted to this issue this

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phenomenon well when I was young and

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impressionable I read a book and that

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book as is true of so many in my

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generation was Ed rubella reported

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unidentified flying objects which was a

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memoir by the guy who headed Project

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Blue Book in the early 1950s and it was

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a sensible balanced book and the first

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book I had read was a contactee book

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like George damn skis I don't think I

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would have been interested even as a kid

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I would have thought that was nonsense

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but Rubel got to the core of the mystery

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of this very interesting phenomenon and

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I was hooked and I guess I've stayed

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hooked now the rootbound book is kind of

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curious because he had the original

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version in 1956 as a matter of fact and

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then there was a sequel or an update

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where he added several chapters and kind

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of poo-poo the whole thing well kind of

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poo-pooed is putting it charitably it's

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yes indeed but they were really strongly

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we're only at a UFO I think that route

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out probably was always more skeptical

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and he indicated I think that the first

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book the first edition one published in

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1956 may have been torn down not to put

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off an audience at least group out

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claimed that he lived only four more

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years after the publication the first

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book died 1960 of a heart attack

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now I understand he was what in his late

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30s at the time he was quite young yeah

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I don't think he'd reached 40 and he was

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not

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terribly imagined a guy according to

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Allen Hynek whom I knew repelled was

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really kind of an organizer who had a

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good sense out of organized things and

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he got the airforce you have whole

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project which was in disarray in 1951

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when he took charge of it working again

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and conducting actual investigations I

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think that rule fell probably wasn't

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daring or imaginative enough to take the

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leap that maybe these things represented

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some kind of otherworldly visitation but

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he did acknowledge that some of the

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cases were really puzzling now if you

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believe major Donald Kehoe in one of his

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books which was published ahead of the

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revision to the report on UFOs he quoted

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rappelled as saying he was under

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pressure by his bosses to or his former

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bosses at the time to basically tear

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down UFOs be more skeptical of it what

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do you think of that well there's no

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question that the Air Force was not

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pleased with rappels book it was far

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more open to the possibility that UFOs

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are real than the Air Force wanted and

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in fact a few years later the later had

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a project Bluebook just tore repelled

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apart in a book that he wrote called

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flying saucers in the US Air Force

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so yes I'm sure the route that was under

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pressure but I think that as we get from

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his Barger for Wendy Connors and Michael

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Hall loop al was not really ever really

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a strong beautiful proponent do we think

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then maybe Kehoe was putting a spin on

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this was Keo that kind of possible it

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was well there were certainly truth in

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that it was obvious that the Air Force

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was unhappy the Air Force was publicly

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unhappy with route belt and I think that

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the Air Force really wanted to him to

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make a clear anti UFO statement but in

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that sense there was pressure but I

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don't think that it was pressure to

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force Ruth belt to say something that he

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didn't believe on some level okay so in

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that sense he basically gave you what

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his real viewpoint was not something

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that was sugar-coated or forced upon him

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that's I think the most reasonable

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reading I mean I'm not reading his mind

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but just from Maya

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and from the biography of rue Pelt that

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Connors and Hall wrote that this seems

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to be the most reasonable interpretation

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okay so you read the book report on UFO

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is a pretty straightforward presentation

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now you're a young guy where do you go

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from there to pursue your interest well

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I subscribe to fate magazine and in

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about 1960 1961 which introduced me to

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the kind of subculture of UFO buffs in

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those days as you remember well gee and

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there were subcultures specifically of

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teenage UFO buffs and they published

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teenage UFO publications and teenager

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organizations I don't think anything

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like that exists anymore but there was a

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thriving scene in fact my friend David

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Halperin just next month is coming out

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with a book a novel based on his

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experiences as teenage UFO buff I wonder

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what I'll say about me well I'm waiting

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for my copy of the book it's called Jude

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I think it's called Journal of a UFO

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investigator something like that and

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it's supposed to be pretty good but

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anyway then I began to get books through

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interlibrary loan which introduced me to

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the book of charles fort which probably

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in the long span of things proved to be

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a greater influence on me even than drew

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felt was because ford had a larger kind

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of view of the of anomalies generally

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and and really put sightings of UFO like

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objects into the broad context of other

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kinds of unexplained phenomena then a

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bit also interested me not so much

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psychic phenomena but things like false

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in the sky cryptozoological animals and

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that sort of thing did you at all feel

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at that point that UFOs and the rest of

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these things were related or what

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they're related in being puzzling hard

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to explain you know it wasn't no easy to

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particularly see a connection between a

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report of a lake monster and report of a

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UFO and I still don't really see that

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connection but it was just interesting

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to be open to a world of strange thing

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made the world seem much more lively and

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and engaging in the little life I was

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living in a small town in Minnesota now

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at the time you and I got together at

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that point you didn't have more of a

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paranormal slant to the UFO mystery how

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did that take place how did that reflect

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itself I don't think that's true gene I

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remember I pretty much thought

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like Donald keel except that I was also

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interested in other stuff but were UFOs

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are concerned I thought and continued to

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think that the core phenomenon is

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probably extraterrestrial in origin and

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I think if you go back to Kehoe's books

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which were published mostly in 1950s

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they concentrated on the kinds of

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sightings that pilots and Air Force

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officers and police saw men and people

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like that were making so sort of these

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solid reports of daylight discs had

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shown up on radar and that is still the

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core of the UFO phenomena and that's

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what was keyhole was interested in and

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he in kiel was also an avid reader of

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popular astronomy so he was connecting

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these reports with the state-of-the-art

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scientific speculation about life and

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other planets and even in the 1950s many

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astronomers thought that there could be

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intelligent life on Mars Niemann Venus

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I'm sure that's one thing to Kio

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in his books was speculating on the

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possibility of Mars Martian UFOs the

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canals all that stuff things that we

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learned later were not quite that way

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even the early contactees you know the

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space because they met came from Venus

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or Mars but of course we didn't know

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that Venus was a hothouse so those

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individuals would have to live in a

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pretty strange climate but we understand

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that he was just basically mirroring

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what he was reading at the time well

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even Donald Kehoe I mean excuse me

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Donald Menzel who was the major UFO

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skeptic at the time and a Harvard

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University astronomer believe that Mars

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that Venus consisted of a gigantic ocean

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with mermaid-like beings in it so even

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you know straight UFO skeptical

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scientists had some pretty extreme and

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exotic ideas about

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neighboring planet that was Donald

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Mansell thought that yeah

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that's news to me Wow yeah yeah isn't

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that strange it's been really high

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Roenick I've to me it's hilarious I also

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know what those teachers that he drew

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that Jim Mosely bought those paintings

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of space beings yeah yeah yeah those

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were kind of out of his imagination as

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were the mermaids of Venus but he did

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propose that mermaids from Venus I don't

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know if I can handle that the

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inspiration for the movie splash I don't

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think so Jerome Clarke joins us UFO

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historian our co-host is Chris O'Brien

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I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

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cast are you ready to order the official

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don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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cast community forums at forum dot the

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forum dot the para cast comm Jerry Clark

337
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:40,880
joining us Chris O'Brien's the co-host

338
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:42,770
I'm gene steinberger in the para cast

339
00:14:48,250 --> 00:14:45,770
now if we believe certain documents that

340
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,260
came to light in the 1980s the so called

341
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:50,240
mj-12 documents and of course we're

342
00:14:54,430 --> 00:14:51,890
gonna want to hear of your a few point

343
00:14:56,980 --> 00:14:54,440
about that Donald Menzel of course

344
00:14:59,640 --> 00:14:56,990
having worked allegedly in intelligence

345
00:15:01,930 --> 00:14:59,650
in World War two was still basically

346
00:15:05,050 --> 00:15:01,940
presenting the sight of himself as the

347
00:15:08,620 --> 00:15:05,060
UFO skeptic that was opposed he was part

348
00:15:12,490 --> 00:15:08,630
of mj-12 is that all big colossal joke

349
00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:12,500
well I think the allegation is in fact I

350
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:14,870
think that whoever forged the mj-12

351
00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:17,720
document that in as a conscious joke

352
00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:20,540
never realizing that somebody we're

353
00:15:25,330 --> 00:15:23,030
talking about Stan Freeman would run

354
00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:25,340
with it and I don't believe for a second

355
00:15:29,950 --> 00:15:27,350
that pencil was anything other than a

356
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:29,960
man who was deeply skeptical of UFO

357
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:32,720
reports almost fanatically so I saw my

358
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:36,110
TV show called open minds in the 1960s

359
00:15:43,270 --> 00:15:39,680
he was on with a couple of UFO authors

360
00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:43,280
and the man went almost apoplectic he

361
00:15:47,980 --> 00:15:45,350
had an ear the nervous breakdown

362
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:47,990
screaming about UFOs and they're not

363
00:15:54,430 --> 00:15:51,530
being real yes according to Allen Hynek

364
00:15:57,940 --> 00:15:54,440
the new men's oh well as an astronomical

365
00:16:00,430 --> 00:15:57,950
colleague Melville was really a they're

366
00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:00,440
really a highly overbearing sort of

367
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:03,980
individual who couldn't stand to lose or

368
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:07,040
to be disagreed with and his behavior on

369
00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:09,680
UFO Mathers was pretty consistent with

370
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:12,020
his character and he was really a

371
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:15,040
fanatic who would go to any lengths to

372
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:17,750
disprove a yo forward fourteen fiha to

373
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:20,000
make stuff up Melville was not a good

374
00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:22,850
really a good guy in the sense

375
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:25,350
making it possible for scientists to

376
00:16:31,699 --> 00:16:28,860
examine UFO data if any one scientist

377
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:31,709
could be said to have killed scientific

378
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:34,980
curiosity about UFOs it's mental now

379
00:16:39,769 --> 00:16:36,570
after that of course we had fill class

380
00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:39,779
maybe more personable but still the same

381
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,760
attitude class of course wasn't a

382
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:44,399
scientist and he had no scientific

383
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:47,010
credentials his education was in

384
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:50,310
engineering and he was he was not really

385
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:52,380
scientifically sophisticated in the way

386
00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:54,930
that Mendel was for example classes

387
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,300
filled classes first book UFOs

388
00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:00,000
identified where he proposes this idea

389
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:03,899
of giant plasmas as the cause of UFO

390
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:07,140
reports was ridiculed even in the Condon

391
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:09,089
report which was otherwise skeptical of

392
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:11,490
UFOs and was essentially treated as a

393
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:14,850
work of pseudoscience and after that

394
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:18,329
after the drumming he took class move

395
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:20,850
from thinking that UFOs actually had in

396
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:22,650
the Namas origin and giant plasma

397
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:25,650
certainly would have been anomalous he

398
00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:28,020
went on to more traditional debunking

399
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:30,870
posture where UFOs are hoaxes or

400
00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:33,030
mistakes and the people who claim

401
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:36,150
otherwise err are shady characters and

402
00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:39,600
and since a lot of people since elite

403
00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:41,940
opinion loved to hear that glass had

404
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:44,070
quite a successful career until his

405
00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:46,290
death has to go faulty bunker he was the

406
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:48,660
guy that the TV talk shows they need to

407
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,480
have a fair and balanced presentation so

408
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:54,000
you bring on a skeptic like a fill class

409
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:55,410
because then you can bring on the

410
00:17:59,390 --> 00:17:56,850
believer and say you're being fair to

411
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,400
both sides right yeah

412
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:01,760
class was an important figure in the

413
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,250
culture and in the discussion about UFOs

414
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:08,160
but he wasn't mental Mendel really

415
00:18:13,220 --> 00:18:11,130
played a very special role and I can

416
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:13,230
understand why somebody would think that

417
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:16,290
well maybe he was really up to something

418
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,450
other than what it appeared to be up to

419
00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:21,120
which was a sincere rejection of the UFO

420
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,630
phenomenon but what we saw of Mendel as

421
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,600
a UFO debunker was all accounts entirely

422
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:29,760
consistent with his personality any

423
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:32,370
possibility he was put up to doing that

424
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:35,100
by the authorities in the government or

425
00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:36,660
he just did it on his own

426
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:38,790
well project Bluebook under root belt

427
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:42,090
and repel headed will blue book from

428
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:46,760
late 1951 till um early to mid 1954

429
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:49,410
fathered Menzel's explanations were

430
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:52,050
nonsensical and this was opinion widely

431
00:18:57,260 --> 00:18:55,140
shared within the airforce UFO project

432
00:18:59,600 --> 00:18:57,270
and those other military people who had

433
00:19:02,630 --> 00:18:59,610
some association with it and they

434
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:02,640
rejected Menzel's effort to take their

435
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:04,530
reports and explained them for them and

436
00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:07,230
men's old babies offer never was

437
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:10,620
disliked he was considered not an honest

438
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:13,080
man and his explanations were rejected

439
00:19:18,530 --> 00:19:15,930
by the Bluebook scientists but after

440
00:19:21,410 --> 00:19:18,540
Rupa left and blue book became the

441
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:21,420
public relations debunking operation

442
00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:24,900
that it was until the close in 1969 the

443
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,590
Air Force was working with Menzel they

444
00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:31,200
decided that their quarrel with Menzel

445
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:33,000
was much less than they quarrel ahead

446
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:35,550
with UFO proponents and so Menzel was

447
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:38,460
given access to Air Force UFO reports

448
00:19:43,970 --> 00:19:40,910
and his explanations were accepted

449
00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:43,980
anything to basically pour cold water on

450
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:46,980
the whole thing right yeah it was just

451
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:49,650
the ideas can read it since UFOs are

452
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:52,320
nonsense any explanation even if it

453
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:55,080
isn't strictly true will do but that

454
00:19:58,790 --> 00:19:56,730
takes us to what's going on on the other

455
00:20:01,160 --> 00:19:58,800
side major Keyhoe speaks of a silence

456
00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:01,170
group a group of people individuals

457
00:20:04,340 --> 00:20:03,420
within the government who are covering

458
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:04,350
up UFOs

459
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:06,330
so do you think there was ever such an

460
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:08,910
organization or they just wanted to wash

461
00:20:13,670 --> 00:20:11,850
their hands of the entire affair well I

462
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:13,680
don't really know I mean this is

463
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:15,390
something of course everybody wonders

464
00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:19,380
about and and there are you know there's

465
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:21,480
some circumstantial evidence that there

466
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:24,210
was a group that took UFO sightings more

467
00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:25,860
seriously than the project Bluebook

468
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:29,400
seemed to be doing and I just don't know

469
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:31,530
it's hard for me to believe that you

470
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:34,530
could have really puzzling pork's radar

471
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,320
visual report sightings by pilots and

472
00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:39,120
Air Force people and military personnel

473
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:42,780
have clearly structured you know machine

474
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:45,870
looking objects performing you know

475
00:20:52,340 --> 00:20:49,290
extraordinarily and defying intercept

476
00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:52,350
from our aircraft and not think that

477
00:20:56,780 --> 00:20:54,020
there was something of national security

478
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:56,790
implication going on and so I don't

479
00:21:01,730 --> 00:20:58,770
think it's unreasonable to think that

480
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:01,740
there was some group that at least very

481
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:05,070
closely monitored sightings in sensitive

482
00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:07,290
places like military bases and the

483
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:09,990
atomic installations and so on but it's

484
00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:12,570
very hard to prove that there was any

485
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:14,550
such a group and if there was what

486
00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:16,950
conclusions it came to the most

487
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:19,620
interesting speculation in this regard

488
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:22,830
is in Leslie Keens recent book where she

489
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:25,610
finds a document of undeniable

490
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:28,710
provenance that suggests within the

491
00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:31,280
government there is a kind of small

492
00:21:38,090 --> 00:21:34,190
off-the-books agency which meets

493
00:21:39,950 --> 00:21:38,100
periodically to study really puzzling

494
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:39,960
UFO reports with national security

495
00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:42,930
implications and takes him seriously but

496
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:45,030
that you could never find if you looked

497
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:48,210
through a list of government agencies so

498
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:50,070
this is something that's off the books

499
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:51,810
in many ways of course doing things off

500
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:53,970
the books I guess that's normal for the

501
00:21:59,060 --> 00:21:56,310
US government wasn't it Donald Rumsfeld

502
00:22:01,880 --> 00:21:59,070
who was talking about what 2.2 trillion

503
00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:01,890
dollars of money that had not been

504
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:05,040
accounted for hmm well there's a lot of

505
00:22:08,300 --> 00:22:06,420
that that's one there's no question that

506
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:08,310
this off the books

507
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:10,770
stuff going on in the government and

508
00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:12,510
that's probably where you would find the

509
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:16,140
so-called silence group sounds active it

510
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:19,260
is it may be more passive in having an

511
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:20,910
analytical function rather than a

512
00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:22,890
function going around and threatening

513
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:25,920
your witnesses and reminder if you want

514
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:28,230
to get involved and participate in our

515
00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:31,170
discussions join our forums for empower

516
00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:34,950
cast com that's for America's comm all

517
00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:36,900
you have to do is sign up is give

518
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:40,560
yourself a unique username such as the

519
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:42,690
greatest UFO fan in the world no I think

520
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:44,310
that's taken check it out

521
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:47,850
forum dot para cast comm we'll get back

522
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:50,010
with more with Jerome Clark our co-host

523
00:22:56,660 --> 00:22:52,410
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

524
00:23:03,139 --> 00:22:59,769
[Music]

525
00:23:05,869 --> 00:23:03,149
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

526
00:23:08,139 --> 00:23:05,879
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

527
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relentless perplexing nightmares

528
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nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

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space and of a mysterious woman

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suffering an agony for her devastated

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world a woman not yet born calling

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across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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the rock the former fiction editor for

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Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

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that's our Ock o IDs calm attack a novel

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in the grand science-fiction tradition

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627
00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:18,560
or two about the para cast and which I

628
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believe is the gold standard the

629
00:27:42,940 --> 00:27:40,930
we're back with Jerome Clark UFO

630
00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:42,950
historian Chris O'Brien's the co-host

631
00:27:47,470 --> 00:27:44,750
I'm Jean Steinberg you're in the power

632
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:47,480
cast Chris would you pursue the

633
00:27:52,330 --> 00:27:49,970
questioning yeah Jerry I just I'm very

634
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:52,340
intrigued by a new book that Nick

635
00:27:57,370 --> 00:27:54,410
Redfern just had published a couple of

636
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:57,380
months back called final events and in

637
00:28:01,810 --> 00:27:59,840
that book he mentions a group that's

638
00:28:04,170 --> 00:28:01,820
been dubbed the Collins elite I guess

639
00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:04,180
for convenience that that has been

640
00:28:10,690 --> 00:28:07,220
fairly active but low-key and behind the

641
00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:10,700
scenes looking into the UFO phenomenon

642
00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:12,860
and they determined that it's it's

643
00:28:17,310 --> 00:28:15,550
something of a demonic nature that that

644
00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:17,320
we're not really dealing with

645
00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:18,980
extraterrestrials as much as we're

646
00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:20,920
dealing with demons so are you aware of

647
00:28:26,770 --> 00:28:23,390
of this book number one and number two

648
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:26,780
what do you think of that of that for

649
00:28:31,660 --> 00:28:28,490
the interesting take on this whole thing

650
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:31,670
I have the book I'm ready yet I do read

651
00:28:35,650 --> 00:28:33,710
most of Nick's books and I have respect

652
00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:35,660
him he's a conscientious hard-working

653
00:28:41,950 --> 00:28:38,590
guy and I don't say that in any

654
00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:41,960
condescending way because I don't want

655
00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:43,820
to give you the impression that when I

656
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:46,550
say what I'm about to say I'm putting it

657
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:48,890
off on Nick if that's what he's found

658
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,010
I'll read what he found but no I know I

659
00:28:56,140 --> 00:28:54,080
certainly don't believe UFOs are demonic

660
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:56,150
and you have to remember that even

661
00:29:00,820 --> 00:28:57,490
within the United States government

662
00:29:03,010 --> 00:29:00,830
there's some very very you know

663
00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:03,020
religious people with really kind of

664
00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:05,780
fundamentalist views and that's what

665
00:29:11,050 --> 00:29:08,540
that sort of thing would show up where

666
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:11,060
you know a kind of fundamentalist for

667
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:14,330
the ology would intersect with anomalies

668
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:16,250
and and they always conclude that

669
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,690
they're demonic

670
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:19,360
this seems to be the

671
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:22,390
de facto conclusion no I certainly don't

672
00:29:27,930 --> 00:29:24,910
take that theory seriously in theory is

673
00:29:29,610 --> 00:29:27,940
even a word for it well it's some of the

674
00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:29,620
information that he puts in there is

675
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:32,380
pretty interesting in it it does it does

676
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:36,580
make you wonder how people can when

677
00:29:39,630 --> 00:29:38,410
they're I think it's human nature when

678
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:39,640
you're when you're faced with something

679
00:29:45,870 --> 00:29:42,100
unknown you tend to revert to basic

680
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:45,880
primal thinking think oh yeah and that's

681
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:48,370
I do recommend I do recommend that book

682
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:49,600
for people they're looking for

683
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:55,510
interesting out of the box where do you

684
00:30:00,360 --> 00:29:58,030
see where do you see the involvement in

685
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:00,370
the government in let's say in behind

686
00:30:07,470 --> 00:30:03,570
the scenes and in let's say UFO groups

687
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:07,480
monitoring the actual cultural side of

688
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,250
this as opposed to the science and he

689
00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:11,440
and the actual reports and what have you

690
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:13,270
obviously during the Cold where the

691
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:15,010
government was probably interested in

692
00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:17,470
UFO groups because of the possible

693
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:20,260
infiltration by Eastern Bloc countries

694
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:23,200
but do you see the government having a

695
00:30:29,159 --> 00:30:25,690
very active role let's say in the demise

696
00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:29,169
of NICAP or in some of the the

697
00:30:32,669 --> 00:30:30,940
interesting scenarios that have played

698
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:32,679
out over the years well I think that

699
00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:34,960
NICAP was probably the only group in

700
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:37,510
ural history that actually pulls

701
00:30:42,659 --> 00:30:39,730
something with the threat to official

702
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:42,669
UFO policy because Nike had all these

703
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:45,160
you know retired Admirals and Generals

704
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:48,850
and you know high rank former CIA people

705
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:52,090
and so on board of governors and it was

706
00:30:57,150 --> 00:30:54,850
located in Washington valkia was the

707
00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:57,160
head of my camp and all kinds of you

708
00:31:02,549 --> 00:30:59,950
know official context within the

709
00:31:05,850 --> 00:31:02,559
government and within Congress because

710
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:05,860
of his long history is at the pentagon

711
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:10,080
desk office so the the Air Force

712
00:31:16,409 --> 00:31:14,500
really did not like and like it but when

713
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:16,419
I was working on my encyclopedia during

714
00:31:24,390 --> 00:31:21,490
the 1990s I got access to the nycap

715
00:31:28,530 --> 00:31:24,400
files and I was particularly interested

716
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:28,540
in the documents relating to my cat's

717
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:31,870
demise according to a widespread legend

718
00:31:40,110 --> 00:31:36,010
CIA infiltrated nightcap and destroyed

719
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:40,120
it the documents the internal documents

720
00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:42,550
do not provide any evidence for that

721
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:45,960
conclusion what happened was basically

722
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:49,809
keyhole mismanaged organization Keough

723
00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:53,050
did not have managerial skills did not

724
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:55,780
know how to handle money and there were

725
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:58,480
all kinds of problems and at one point

726
00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:01,600
JB Hart rep who was a member of the

727
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:03,910
board and was the head of the I can't

728
00:32:07,410 --> 00:32:05,290
remember exactly the name it but it was

729
00:32:10,110 --> 00:32:07,420
like the private pilot's Association of

730
00:32:13,650 --> 00:32:10,120
America that's not not exactly it but

731
00:32:15,299 --> 00:32:13,660
close enough and heart ralph was a

732
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:15,309
wealthy guy like a lot of these guys

733
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:17,679
were and he began going through the

734
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:20,710
night cap rules and discovered that if

735
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:23,710
the organization collapsed he and this

736
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:25,120
rich buddies were going to be

737
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:29,470
financially responsible and hard drive

738
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:32,890
just about went ballistic and when he

739
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,690
learned that that he was going to that

740
00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:36,880
when I can't fall apart he was going to

741
00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:37,990
cost him a lot of money

742
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:40,600
he began organizing the board and

743
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:43,510
telling him they had to get rid of Kehoe

744
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:45,670
and that's what happened it's just sort

745
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:48,250
of a you know has to do more with

746
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:50,950
economics with government secrecy and

747
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,440
they put somebody in charge who had some

748
00:32:57,630 --> 00:32:55,120
kind of shady background which probably

749
00:32:59,549 --> 00:32:57,640
wasn't that unusual in Washington at

750
00:33:02,220 --> 00:32:59,559
that time guy didn't know a lot about

751
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:02,230
UFOs but who had some organizational

752
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:04,510
skills and wasn't going to drive the

753
00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:06,190
organization to the ground and cost

754
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:08,710
these guys on the board a lot of their

755
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:10,809
own money and that's basically the story

756
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:13,600
of nightcaps collapse I know that that

757
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:16,260
son that this is legend about the CIA

758
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:19,450
collapsing organization I just don't I

759
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:21,340
just simply didn't find any evidence for

760
00:33:26,850 --> 00:33:24,130
now during a lot of those years Richard

761
00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:26,860
Hall was the day-to-day manager of nycap

762
00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:29,230
I mean I visited them a couple of times

763
00:33:33,150 --> 00:33:30,910
in the sixth season Keo wasn't there he

764
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:33,160
was seldom there he'd come in maybe once

765
00:33:37,230 --> 00:33:34,809
or twice a week so Hall did the

766
00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:37,240
day-to-day work so do we blame the late

767
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:39,670
Richard Hall for some of my caps lapses

768
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:41,730
at the time

769
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:45,330
in the documents that I saw halls name

770
00:33:50,060 --> 00:33:46,799
didn't come up

771
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:50,070
it was Kehoe's name the keel was the guy

772
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:53,370
who was causing all the alarm and

773
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:57,090
generating criticism dick Hall was I

774
00:34:02,180 --> 00:33:59,760
think probably more competent in that

775
00:34:04,370 --> 00:34:02,190
way than kill was and I think that to

776
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,380
the extent that nine camp was effective

777
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:06,000
on a day to day basis and it was

778
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:07,710
remarkably effective in a lot of ways

779
00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:11,040
the the investigations field

780
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:14,760
investigations that NICAP conducted are

781
00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:18,240
just Marvel's they're models of how UFO

782
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:20,820
investigations should be conducted and

783
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:23,280
you can't really appreciate that unless

784
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:25,530
you actually see those files and read

785
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:28,020
what's in them in some of the cases that

786
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:30,210
I discussed in my UFO encyclopedia

787
00:34:35,180 --> 00:34:32,460
they're based almost entirely on the

788
00:34:37,220 --> 00:34:35,190
NICAP field investigations which were so

789
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:37,230
thorough that it was just astonishing

790
00:34:42,260 --> 00:34:39,570
now Keogh wasn't participating in these

791
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:42,270
but dick Hall was overseeing this and

792
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:44,790
interacting with the heads of the

793
00:34:48,319 --> 00:34:46,260
various subcommittees that were

794
00:34:50,780 --> 00:34:48,329
conducting the field investigation I

795
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:50,790
think dick Hall is one of the unheralded

796
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:53,970
heroes of the of the story in and of

797
00:35:00,200 --> 00:34:58,140
ufology generally well I know that I had

798
00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:00,210
some run-ins with Richard Hall at the

799
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:01,950
time because he could be kind of an

800
00:35:06,319 --> 00:35:04,680
irascible person yeah he was he was a

801
00:35:08,329 --> 00:35:06,329
good friend of mine but yes it was her

802
00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:08,339
as well and sometimes I was at the

803
00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:09,990
receiving end of that even as this good

804
00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:13,980
friend okay so we look at nycap then

805
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:17,790
therefore we can't say that nycap even

806
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:20,010
though it was heavily laden on his board

807
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:22,650
with former military officers that it

808
00:35:26,510 --> 00:35:24,390
was really a front because that was one

809
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:26,520
of the other theories about nycap at the

810
00:35:30,859 --> 00:35:28,170
time that nightcap was a front for the

811
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:30,869
CIA or some other organization designed

812
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,290
to again mislead people about UFOs or

813
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:36,480
point them in the wrong direction but

814
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:39,060
what you saw didn't indicate that do you

815
00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:40,140
think that maybe there were certain

816
00:35:44,089 --> 00:35:42,060
documents that were withheld from you

817
00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:44,099
when you check this it didn't look like

818
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:45,990
that to me there was a pretty clear

819
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:48,089
paper trail also the kinds of people who

820
00:35:52,730 --> 00:35:50,130
were on the NiCad board were the kinds

821
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:52,740
of people that that Don Quijano there

822
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:54,310
was national friends

823
00:35:58,170 --> 00:35:55,900
the kinds of people that he socialized

824
00:36:01,590 --> 00:35:58,180
looking a conservative military people

825
00:36:03,660 --> 00:36:01,600
and that describes keyhole retired

826
00:36:06,450 --> 00:36:03,670
military people these were these were

827
00:36:08,660 --> 00:36:06,460
his pals it wasn't that they came out of

828
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:08,670
the woodwork and forced himself on him

829
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:11,080
these are people for the most part he

830
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:15,070
knew pretty well the people he most felt

831
00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:17,770
that he trusted that would be willing to

832
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:20,230
go out on the limb and admit that

833
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:22,570
there's a possibility that UFOs existed

834
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:24,010
it all sounded pretty good although I

835
00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:26,710
got the impression too at the time as a

836
00:36:30,170 --> 00:36:28,270
member of my camp I was a member of

837
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:30,180
NICAP at the time a card-carrying member

838
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:32,500
they could never get their newsletter

839
00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:34,930
out on time Kehoe was always putting

840
00:36:39,870 --> 00:36:37,000
this public appeals we need donations we

841
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:39,880
need financing so it is possible it's

842
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:41,650
not just mismanagement then but maybe

843
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:43,570
they just couldn't get enough money to

844
00:36:46,140 --> 00:36:45,190
keep it going properly we'll get into

845
00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:46,150
more of that in a moment

846
00:36:51,210 --> 00:36:49,030
UFO a story and Jerry Clark joining us

847
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:51,220
the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

848
00:36:56,230 --> 00:37:01,099
[Music]

849
00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:05,160
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

850
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creatures from the darkest corners of

851
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the mind roam the earth is there

852
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evidence for mind control time travel or

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865
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881
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including Streamlight Pelican surefire

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884
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887
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888
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:50,690
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889
00:38:55,329 --> 00:38:52,970
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890
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:55,339
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891
00:39:02,829 --> 00:38:57,470
surprised when you visit battery station

892
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893
00:39:06,849 --> 00:39:04,579
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894
00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:06,859
that's something is atwood rope the

895
00:39:11,309 --> 00:39:08,990
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896
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897
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898
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:16,609
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899
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:18,710
and your customers can depend on find a

900
00:39:24,339 --> 00:39:21,680
dealer or shop online at atwood rope net

901
00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:24,349
enter promo code radio to receive 100

902
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,440
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903
00:39:30,190 --> 00:39:28,880
atwood rope working to keep the world

904
00:39:31,930 --> 00:39:30,200
tied together

905
00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:31,940
hi this is 10 anderson have you ever

906
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,470
wondered why banks stockbrokers

907
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:35,119
investment advisors won't talk about

908
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:36,970
gold iras they've been available since

909
00:39:41,289 --> 00:39:39,530
1986 yet the financial industry won't

910
00:39:43,210 --> 00:39:41,299
recognize the value of gold for your

911
00:39:45,579 --> 00:39:43,220
retirement gold has outperformed paper

912
00:39:47,140 --> 00:39:45,589
investments yet no word about IRAs if

913
00:39:50,829 --> 00:39:47,150
you would like to have gold for your

914
00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:50,839
retirement call 866 to 237 don't get

915
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:52,700
left behind by rising inflation and low

916
00:40:10,870 --> 00:39:56,720
returns call 866 to 237 secure your

917
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:12,640
listen if you have symptoms of an

918
00:40:16,209 --> 00:40:14,390
enlarged prostate but don't want to take

919
00:40:18,789 --> 00:40:16,219
a drug with possible nasty side effects

920
00:40:21,189 --> 00:40:18,799
or if you're over 40 then use prostate

921
00:40:21,579 --> 00:40:21,199
secure a natural dietary supplement for

922
00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:21,589
men

923
00:40:24,969 --> 00:40:23,390
prostate secure is a scientifically

924
00:40:26,499 --> 00:40:24,979
formulated blend of clinically

925
00:40:28,419 --> 00:40:26,509
significant amounts of natural

926
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:28,429
ingredients it brings together the most

927
00:40:32,529 --> 00:40:30,529
powerful plant sterols like beta site of

928
00:40:34,269 --> 00:40:32,539
sterile and saw palmetto along with

929
00:40:36,969 --> 00:40:34,279
antioxidants such as vitamin d3

930
00:40:38,890 --> 00:40:36,979
resveratrol and lycopene to support good

931
00:40:41,049 --> 00:40:38,900
prostate health proper urinary flow

932
00:40:43,689 --> 00:40:41,059
function and more check out prostate

933
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:43,699
secure calm order online and save 10%

934
00:40:48,759 --> 00:40:46,880
with promo code save 10 or call one

935
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three two that's 800 two three nine nine

937
00:40:56,380 --> 00:40:54,199
four three two or visit prostate secure

938
00:40:58,569 --> 00:40:56,390
calm take control of your prostate

939
00:41:02,529 --> 00:40:58,579
health naturally with prostate secure

940
00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:02,539
are you tired of searching for great

941
00:41:15,020 --> 00:41:05,660
talk radio more important surgery

942
00:41:23,820 --> 00:41:18,230
this is the bare cast you never know

943
00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:26,880
we returned with Jerome Clark the book

944
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:29,830
he's talking about is this UFO history

945
00:41:35,790 --> 00:41:33,130
book tell us more about it before we go

946
00:41:38,370 --> 00:41:35,800
into more details about nightcap and

947
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:38,380
other organizations well into the 1990s

948
00:41:43,860 --> 00:41:40,530
I did a multi-volume

949
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:43,870
UFO encyclopedia for the reference house

950
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:48,690
on the graphics and that multi-volume

951
00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:51,370
series which actually was it was in two

952
00:41:55,590 --> 00:41:53,830
editions the second of which was which

953
00:41:59,970 --> 00:41:55,600
is a definitive one was published in

954
00:42:03,150 --> 00:41:59,980
1998 is really the probably the most the

955
00:42:07,620 --> 00:42:03,160
fullest history of the UFO controversy

956
00:42:09,810 --> 00:42:07,630
that seemed print anywhere and I spent

957
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:09,820
years working and had access to all

958
00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:12,130
kinds of materials that hadn't seen

959
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:15,580
print before so it's a perspective

960
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:17,200
that's based on a lot of original

961
00:42:21,660 --> 00:42:19,330
research and primary documents and

962
00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:21,670
interviews and so on so there's a lot of

963
00:42:26,430 --> 00:42:23,980
things in there that that people don't

964
00:42:29,250 --> 00:42:26,440
know or that are that correct or exist

965
00:42:31,230 --> 00:42:29,260
and the record and you know it's really

966
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:31,240
kind of my life's work my most recent

967
00:42:39,150 --> 00:42:35,560
book which came out in this summer is

968
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:39,160
called hidden realms lost civilizations

969
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:42,610
and being some other world is is an

970
00:42:48,810 --> 00:42:44,560
overview of the wilder sides of

971
00:42:51,930 --> 00:42:48,820
everything the shaver mystery and things

972
00:42:54,690 --> 00:42:51,940
like that let's briefly segue to the

973
00:42:57,060 --> 00:42:54,700
wilder side the wild wooly side of UFOs

974
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:57,070
the shaver mystery stuff like that

975
00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:00,880
now obviously there are attractions to

976
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:02,380
the kind of things that shaver talked

977
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:04,780
about and you and I both new shavers so

978
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:07,330
we have some personal knowledge of this

979
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:10,240
but are there things we should mention

980
00:43:14,310 --> 00:43:12,130
about people like shaver maybe in

981
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:14,320
connection with that Ray Palmer that

982
00:43:18,090 --> 00:43:16,570
would illuminate more their point of

983
00:43:21,450 --> 00:43:18,100
view or why they came to those

984
00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:21,460
conclusions I want to say one thing I I

985
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:23,560
did not know she ever personally I like

986
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:26,650
you and I want to also say that the

987
00:43:31,770 --> 00:43:29,050
interview that you did was shaver that

988
00:43:33,450 --> 00:43:31,780
you published years ago is probably the

989
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:33,460
single most illuminating

990
00:43:36,270 --> 00:43:35,410
interview with the man that I have ever

991
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:36,280
read and

992
00:43:40,740 --> 00:43:38,350
often had occasion to go back to it

993
00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:40,750
intubated I'm surprised thank you this

994
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:42,540
was published like in the early 1970s

995
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:46,240
where my first wife Geneva and I took a

996
00:43:52,530 --> 00:43:49,920
drive out to someplace in rural Arkansas

997
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:52,540
found this cottage with Richard shaver

998
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:55,090
and his wife Dorothy personable people

999
00:44:01,200 --> 00:43:57,970
and the thing I liked about him is I had

1000
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:01,210
a brief interview and I said you know

1001
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:02,770
anything you want to add and he says no

1002
00:44:07,940 --> 00:44:04,930
I just want to go get a cigarette hmm

1003
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:07,950
well I I found that incredibly

1004
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,930
illuminating interview maybe you just

1005
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:12,880
happen to ask in that brief time all the

1006
00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:15,450
right questions and shaver was being

1007
00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:18,910
unusually the Frank one of the things

1008
00:44:24,510 --> 00:44:21,400
that we take away from Richard shaver

1009
00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:24,520
about his contribution or lack thereof

1010
00:44:29,580 --> 00:44:27,340
to UFO research I don't think he made

1011
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:29,590
any contribution in a full research but

1012
00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:32,370
I think that he made a contribution to Z

1013
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:36,700
in this folklore and culture of the

1014
00:44:41,370 --> 00:44:39,490
otherworldly and I think that there's

1015
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:41,380
another kind of distinction seldom

1016
00:44:46,980 --> 00:44:43,630
remarked on but really needs to be

1017
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:46,990
stressed most people who talk about

1018
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:49,680
visionary experiences are kind of

1019
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:53,650
visionary scenarios of liars or stranger

1020
00:45:00,540 --> 00:44:56,890
Otherworld are perfectly sincere and

1021
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:00,550
mentally well you know the in contrast

1022
00:45:04,050 --> 00:45:02,110
to the standards at all if you think

1023
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,060
that or claim that this happened to you

1024
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:05,920
you experienced that you must be a nut

1025
00:45:11,130 --> 00:45:08,640
well actually there's a fair amount of

1026
00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:11,140
you know scholarly and psychiatric

1027
00:45:16,350 --> 00:45:14,260
writing on the subject and people who

1028
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:16,360
have otherworldly visions that are

1029
00:45:20,610 --> 00:45:18,730
necessarily mentally ill in fact there's

1030
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:20,620
some evidence that actually some of them

1031
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:24,160
are better often the rest of us but I do

1032
00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:26,710
believe that Shavers visions grew out of

1033
00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:29,620
clinical mental illness and that he did

1034
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:31,390
spend a lot of time in mental

1035
00:45:37,290 --> 00:45:34,330
institutions and I think that if shaver

1036
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:37,300
hadn't connected with Ray Palmer who as

1037
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:39,490
you know was an incredible promoter of

1038
00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:42,160
all kinds of outlandish things we

1039
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:44,200
wouldn't be talking about shaver it had

1040
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:46,630
just been another crazy person well

1041
00:45:49,350 --> 00:45:48,850
Palmer said in the interview I did with

1042
00:45:51,330 --> 00:45:49,360
him

1043
00:45:52,410 --> 00:45:51,340
he revealed you know shaver was in a

1044
00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:52,420
mental institution

1045
00:45:58,830 --> 00:45:55,900
and of course shaver became very

1046
00:46:01,590 --> 00:45:58,840
incensed over this but the point being

1047
00:46:03,570 --> 00:46:01,600
that Palmer knew what to say and how to

1048
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:03,580
say do we believe Palmer Palmer claimed

1049
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:07,360
he was at one point harassed by alleged

1050
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:11,170
men and black or under earth beings or

1051
00:46:16,380 --> 00:46:12,300
something like that

1052
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:16,390
well Palmer tells one story which he

1053
00:46:20,540 --> 00:46:19,090
stuck with over the years and that was

1054
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:20,550
that when he first went out to visit

1055
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:23,920
shaver in Pennsylvania which would have

1056
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:26,770
been probably in early 1945 he doesn't

1057
00:46:33,350 --> 00:46:28,330
date this but that's as near as I can

1058
00:46:36,270 --> 00:46:33,360
trace it he claims that he heard voices

1059
00:46:38,340 --> 00:46:36,280
talking about torturing a young woman

1060
00:46:40,350 --> 00:46:38,350
and of course the demonic entities that

1061
00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:40,360
she ever talked about were really

1062
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:43,660
basically sadistic idiots called DeRose

1063
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:47,530
and so Palmer claimed that he heard all

1064
00:46:52,380 --> 00:46:49,690
these voices while he was in the bedroom

1065
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:52,390
late at night at the shaver residence

1066
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:54,610
and he said that it was impossible for

1067
00:47:01,800 --> 00:46:57,310
shaver to have faked all these voices

1068
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:01,810
and she and Palmer carried this story

1069
00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:04,930
forward for years and he was repeating

1070
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:07,180
it even close to the end of his life and

1071
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:10,210
this was the source for his alleged

1072
00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:13,210
belief that there was something to what

1073
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:16,390
shaver was saying the problem is I

1074
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:19,210
worked as you know for many years for

1075
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:22,480
fate magazine and I knew Curt and Mary

1076
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:25,720
fuller very well and they had co-founded

1077
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:28,510
fate with Palmer and they'd known him

1078
00:47:33,090 --> 00:47:30,550
years before because they both work

1079
00:47:35,970 --> 00:47:33,100
versus if Davis publishing in Chicago

1080
00:47:37,290 --> 00:47:35,980
and I often asked him about Palmer and

1081
00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:37,300
shaver and so on

1082
00:47:41,790 --> 00:47:39,790
and they said that that although they

1083
00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:41,800
thought that shaver was a really a

1084
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:44,110
personable guy they thought that he was

1085
00:47:49,170 --> 00:47:46,510
like a mental case literally not

1086
00:47:51,450 --> 00:47:49,180
figuratively and they also said

1087
00:47:55,230 --> 00:47:51,460
consistently about Palmer that it was

1088
00:47:57,900 --> 00:47:55,240
just simply impossible ever to tell what

1089
00:48:00,060 --> 00:47:57,910
Paul believed about anything and so that

1090
00:48:02,820 --> 00:48:00,070
anything that shaver that that Palmer

1091
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:02,830
said they tended to view show

1092
00:48:08,010 --> 00:48:06,010
they continously so basically was Palmer

1093
00:48:09,570 --> 00:48:08,020
just making up a lot of these things

1094
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,580
just to sell magazines

1095
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:12,160
is that also a problem they had in

1096
00:48:17,310 --> 00:48:15,070
relating with him is that why he split

1097
00:48:19,650 --> 00:48:17,320
from the Fuller's what's the answer that

1098
00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:19,660
was one reason they had trouble in the

1099
00:48:23,490 --> 00:48:21,430
early years of fate magazine mary-4

1100
00:48:25,860 --> 00:48:23,500
suffered from tuberculosis and the

1101
00:48:28,830 --> 00:48:25,870
Fuller's had these small children and

1102
00:48:31,770 --> 00:48:28,840
Kurt Fuller was also the answer a flying

1103
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:31,780
magazine so Kurt was extremely busy

1104
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:34,200
raising these with small children

1105
00:48:41,310 --> 00:48:37,810
working as an editor and and taking care

1106
00:48:43,830 --> 00:48:41,320
of his wife so the magazine in the early

1107
00:48:46,530 --> 00:48:43,840
years was run almost exclusively by

1108
00:48:49,110 --> 00:48:46,540
Palmer so there's all kinds of content

1109
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:49,120
in those early years some of which

1110
00:48:53,330 --> 00:48:50,890
actually still survives in French

1111
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:53,340
literature that may actually have been

1112
00:48:58,410 --> 00:48:57,040
Palmer written fiction and the Fuller's

1113
00:49:01,500 --> 00:48:58,420
tell me that they could never really

1114
00:49:03,780 --> 00:49:01,510
tell because the records were scarce and

1115
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:03,790
they couldn't believe what Palmer told

1116
00:49:09,870 --> 00:49:06,310
them so if you read those wonderful

1117
00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:09,880
early issues of fate there wasn't really

1118
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:13,470
any control over the factual content so

1119
00:49:18,990 --> 00:49:16,510
Palmer I think you know human beings are

1120
00:49:21,150 --> 00:49:19,000
complicated you can't just summarize a

1121
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:21,160
whole life or a whole personality in the

1122
00:49:26,010 --> 00:49:23,110
single sentence unless you're dealing

1123
00:49:28,410 --> 00:49:26,020
with some extremely dull individual but

1124
00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:28,420
Palmer I think was even more complex

1125
00:49:33,630 --> 00:49:31,270
than most people and that there were

1126
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:33,640
things I think I suspect that he

1127
00:49:37,530 --> 00:49:36,070
genuinely believed but what did he

1128
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:37,540
believe them or not they were all

1129
00:49:42,990 --> 00:49:41,110
subject for exploitation and didn't

1130
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:43,000
matter well he found credible or not if

1131
00:49:49,770 --> 00:49:46,240
he could if he could exploit it and make

1132
00:49:52,170 --> 00:49:49,780
money he told me he when he was like a

1133
00:49:55,950 --> 00:49:52,180
carnival barker that's what I compare

1134
00:49:57,630 --> 00:49:55,960
him to PT Barnum yeah some people talk

1135
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:57,640
of grey Barker in that fashion

1136
00:50:05,220 --> 00:50:01,200
oh great Barker's idol was Ray Palmer

1137
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:05,230
yes we know that yeah I assume you guys

1138
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:07,690
have seen that excellent documentary

1139
00:50:11,850 --> 00:50:09,550
film Shades of Grey done the Bob

1140
00:50:14,490 --> 00:50:11,860
Barker's life yes we did an episode

1141
00:50:15,650 --> 00:50:14,500
about it and I did get to see it briefly

1142
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:15,660
and of course I knew

1143
00:50:21,470 --> 00:50:18,930
Barker's you did so it was interesting

1144
00:50:23,329 --> 00:50:21,480
what his approach was but you know some

1145
00:50:26,750 --> 00:50:23,339
of us like Alan Greenfield always

1146
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:26,760
believed that in the end great Barker

1147
00:50:33,470 --> 00:50:30,480
had this kernel of belief in UFOs but

1148
00:50:35,870 --> 00:50:33,480
ever the showman he basically focused

1149
00:50:37,579 --> 00:50:35,880
and the stuff that sounded good that

1150
00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:37,589
could potentially sell book sell

1151
00:50:42,849 --> 00:50:40,200
magazines not so much on the hard core

1152
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:42,859
research where he wasn't so concerned

1153
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:45,599
absolutely that I think in fact in the

1154
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:47,970
film I say something in the same good

1155
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:50,700
yeah it's not hard to be puzzled by UFOs

1156
00:50:56,180 --> 00:50:52,650
to think that there's really something

1157
00:50:58,339 --> 00:50:56,190
strange and unknown going on here but

1158
00:50:59,660 --> 00:50:58,349
you know at some points you can realize

1159
00:51:00,339 --> 00:50:59,670
you know there's not much I can do about

1160
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:00,349
it

1161
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:03,690
you know and some people just beat their

1162
00:51:08,089 --> 00:51:06,240
heads forever like me and you guys and

1163
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:08,099
and other people just thinking I'm gonna

1164
00:51:17,539 --> 00:51:14,329
fun with it so I though in some of the

1165
00:51:19,789 --> 00:51:17,549
things that are written or broadcast

1166
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:19,799
about UFOs is people concentrate on the

1167
00:51:23,299 --> 00:51:21,210
possibility of taking something like

1168
00:51:25,099 --> 00:51:23,309
this and say hey you know we can have

1169
00:51:27,019 --> 00:51:25,109
fun we could make money we can really

1170
00:51:29,059 --> 00:51:27,029
have a good time and it doesn't so much

1171
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:29,069
matter what the UFOs are what their

1172
00:51:33,289 --> 00:51:31,049
impact on our civilization might be

1173
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:33,299
we're very much impacted over the years

1174
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:36,359
by Jerome Clark UFO historian the

1175
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:37,920
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1176
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:49,580
[Music]

1177
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:52,240
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1178
00:51:56,460 --> 00:51:54,190
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1179
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:56,470
favorite programs on GCM I've got good

1180
00:52:00,570 --> 00:51:58,240
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1181
00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:00,580
gzn has a brand new iPhone app available

1182
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:03,160
for our dedicated listeners at GCM

1183
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:05,110
live.com listen to your favorite

1184
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,210
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

1185
00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:09,280
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

1186
00:52:13,890 --> 00:52:11,500
best part the gcn iPhone app can be

1187
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:13,900
yours absolutely free download the

1188
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:15,730
iPhone app today by clicking on the

1189
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:18,190
banner at GCN live.com again that's

1190
00:52:22,050 --> 00:52:20,770
juicy and live.com hi this is Ted

1191
00:52:24,090 --> 00:52:22,060
Anderson have you ever wondered why

1192
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:24,100
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

1193
00:52:28,410 --> 00:52:26,050
won't talk about gold IRAs they've been

1194
00:52:30,060 --> 00:52:28,420
available since 1986 yet the financial

1195
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:30,070
industry won't recognize the value of

1196
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,810
gold for your attire mint gold has

1197
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:33,760
outperformed paper investments yet no

1198
00:52:48,350 --> 00:52:35,680
word about IRAs if you would like to

1199
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:53,990
806-853-9949

1200
00:52:59,640 --> 00:52:56,849
welcome back to the podcast the gold

1201
00:53:05,780 --> 00:52:59,650
standard of paranormal radio and now

1202
00:53:10,349 --> 00:53:08,609
we have Jerome Clark getting into the

1203
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:10,359
second hour of the power cast it seems

1204
00:53:15,150 --> 00:53:12,130
so much less when we record these shows

1205
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:15,160
for magical reasons but now I know why

1206
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:17,290
my head soft I've been beating it

1207
00:53:22,589 --> 00:53:19,810
against the wall it totally makes sense

1208
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:22,599
now Chris O'Brien that's why so Brian

1209
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:25,810
who says give up our cast he sounds like

1210
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:27,310
he's beating his head against the wall

1211
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,119
oh no it doesn't feel like that Gerry

1212
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:33,040
seriously or maybe half seriously is it

1213
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:34,810
feel sometimes you've been involved in

1214
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:37,359
the UFO field for so many decades maybe

1215
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:38,770
you're beating your head against the

1216
00:53:42,569 --> 00:53:40,450
wall that nothing is ever going to be

1217
00:53:45,359 --> 00:53:42,579
solved it's just going to go on and on

1218
00:53:47,220 --> 00:53:45,369
and your kids and their kids and their

1219
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:47,230
grandkids will still be looking into it

1220
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:49,089
well I didn't mean to sound quite as

1221
00:53:52,980 --> 00:53:51,010
cynical I met that guy humorously I

1222
00:53:55,530 --> 00:53:52,990
think that what I'm what I was trying to

1223
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:55,540
say more seriously here is when you

1224
00:53:59,790 --> 00:53:57,310
start out do you think you are going to

1225
00:54:01,349 --> 00:53:59,800
be able to solve it and in fact what

1226
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:01,359
happens over time is that you begin to

1227
00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:04,510
realize that what's going on is really

1228
00:54:09,089 --> 00:54:07,390
beyond current knowledge and if it's

1229
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:09,099
ever solved it's not going to be by you

1230
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:12,430
and the human race itself and science

1231
00:54:19,890 --> 00:54:15,490
will not solve it until we know more

1232
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:19,900
about how the universe works and so over

1233
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:23,410
time I have developed various ideas and

1234
00:54:32,220 --> 00:54:27,130
in the last 15 years or so I think that

1235
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:32,230
I have figured out at least what is

1236
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:35,200
going on without explaining it but at

1237
00:54:39,809 --> 00:54:37,569
least having some sense of yes this is

1238
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:39,819
the way it works whatever it is it works

1239
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:42,640
like this and that has given me some

1240
00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:45,250
satisfaction so you know when I written

1241
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:47,619
my last book and gone on to whatever

1242
00:54:52,140 --> 00:54:49,930
lies beyond I'll have some satisfaction

1243
00:54:55,740 --> 00:54:52,150
feeling that yes I did make intellectual

1244
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:55,750
progress with this ok if it's et coming

1245
00:55:03,480 --> 00:54:56,260
here

1246
00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:03,490
many years we don't know maybe many

1247
00:55:07,569 --> 00:55:06,550
centuries doesn't it have to ultimately

1248
00:55:09,999 --> 00:55:07,579
play out with

1249
00:55:12,459 --> 00:55:10,009
some kind of connection between us and

1250
00:55:15,009 --> 00:55:12,469
them or will they say is stay forever

1251
00:55:18,130 --> 00:55:15,019
elusive is that part of it that it's

1252
00:55:22,059 --> 00:55:18,140
destined to be something where UFOs will

1253
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:22,069
never be known unless the tables turn I

1254
00:55:26,170 --> 00:55:24,140
think the fundamental problem is kind of

1255
00:55:29,769 --> 00:55:26,180
expressed in your question in that and

1256
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:29,779
that is that we just presume without

1257
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:31,249
even thinking about it

1258
00:55:35,229 --> 00:55:33,200
so when we're talking about UFOs we're

1259
00:55:36,670 --> 00:55:35,239
talking about one thing I think we're

1260
00:55:38,799 --> 00:55:36,680
probably dealing with at least two

1261
00:55:42,279 --> 00:55:38,809
things which are not related to each

1262
00:55:45,339 --> 00:55:42,289
other except on a highly superficial

1263
00:55:47,140 --> 00:55:45,349
level but they're pistol illogically the

1264
00:55:49,870 --> 00:55:47,150
we're dealing with two very different

1265
00:55:52,569 --> 00:55:49,880
things and what we call the UFO

1266
00:55:55,209 --> 00:55:52,579
phenomenon is defined by you know

1267
00:55:58,089 --> 00:55:55,219
keyhole and in the foundational figures

1268
00:56:01,359 --> 00:55:58,099
of ufology we're talking about probably

1269
00:56:03,749 --> 00:56:01,369
a minority of what people experiences

1270
00:56:07,259 --> 00:56:03,759
UFOs now I'm not talking about

1271
00:56:10,539 --> 00:56:07,269
identified flying objects or hoaxes or

1272
00:56:14,229 --> 00:56:10,549
misinterpretations talking about - great

1273
00:56:16,299 --> 00:56:14,239
anomalies of which the Lasser is

1274
00:56:19,029 --> 00:56:16,309
probably extraterrestrial visitors from

1275
00:56:21,279 --> 00:56:19,039
another solar system the other the

1276
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:21,289
really really puzzling the really high

1277
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:23,690
strangeness aspect of this is an

1278
00:56:29,229 --> 00:56:27,170
experiential phenomenon the UFO that is

1279
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:29,239
arguably extraterrestrial in origin

1280
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:31,849
isn't it bent phenomena it can be traced

1281
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:32,690
on radar

1282
00:56:38,979 --> 00:56:35,690
these puzzling brown faces you know

1283
00:56:41,140 --> 00:56:38,989
basically the core UFO phenomena you can

1284
00:56:43,630 --> 00:56:41,150
find demonstrated in closing colors -

1285
00:56:45,999 --> 00:56:43,640
the second guy the high strangest

1286
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:46,009
phenomena probably something else and

1287
00:56:50,829 --> 00:56:48,410
probably an experience period

1288
00:56:53,769 --> 00:56:50,839
experiential phenomenon and something

1289
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:53,779
related to centuries and centuries of

1290
00:57:01,319 --> 00:56:56,930
you know supernatural experience that is

1291
00:57:04,420 --> 00:57:01,329
really related to some extraordinarily

1292
00:57:06,339 --> 00:57:04,430
anomalous state of consciousness and

1293
00:57:09,279 --> 00:57:06,349
really so far beyond current knowledge

1294
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:09,289
that we don't even really have a useful

1295
00:57:16,269 --> 00:57:13,119
vocabulary with which to discuss it

1296
00:57:18,670 --> 00:57:16,279
so from my point of view they're there

1297
00:57:19,420 --> 00:57:18,680
the event phenomenon is the core

1298
00:57:24,970 --> 00:57:19,430
phenomenon

1299
00:57:27,609 --> 00:57:24,980
strangeness aspect and that exists only

1300
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:27,619
in memory and testimony well you bring

1301
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:29,410
up a very interesting point that

1302
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:32,210
majority of you know especially the

1303
00:57:36,730 --> 00:57:34,910
highest range events are experiencing

1304
00:57:39,999 --> 00:57:36,740
now do you think that this is

1305
00:57:41,380 --> 00:57:40,009
experiential with the individual or it

1306
00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:41,390
could there be some sort of collective

1307
00:57:49,809 --> 00:57:45,950
experience aspect to this or is this

1308
00:57:51,370 --> 00:57:49,819
purely a an individual experiencing

1309
00:57:53,859 --> 00:57:51,380
something strange tapping into something

1310
00:57:55,690 --> 00:57:53,869
strange and having it occur to them or

1311
00:57:58,059 --> 00:57:55,700
or is it something that could be

1312
00:58:00,609 --> 00:57:58,069
possibly collective that we're dealing

1313
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:00,619
with something that is manifesting in

1314
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:02,960
more than just one person let's say oh

1315
00:58:07,989 --> 00:58:04,970
absolutely that's what makes it so

1316
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:07,999
incredibly puzzling you know if all high

1317
00:58:13,809 --> 00:58:11,450
strangeness experiences were reported by

1318
00:58:15,309 --> 00:58:13,819
only one person and many of them are but

1319
00:58:17,259 --> 00:58:15,319
not all of them obviously

1320
00:58:19,630 --> 00:58:17,269
yeah then we could say wow we're dealing

1321
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:19,640
with some real psychological anomaly but

1322
00:58:24,730 --> 00:58:20,720
the fact that these things can be

1323
00:58:26,249 --> 00:58:24,740
collective experience really ratcheted

1324
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:26,259
[Music]

1325
00:58:31,299 --> 00:58:28,910
one person is experiencing all this what

1326
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:31,309
I'm saying is is this an individual

1327
00:58:36,910 --> 00:58:33,650
thing or is it something that could be

1328
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:36,920
part of a collective manifestation that

1329
00:58:40,599 --> 00:58:39,049
can be a collective experience and

1330
00:58:43,150 --> 00:58:40,609
that's what makes it so strange and so

1331
00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:43,160
hard yeah and then we get into the realm

1332
00:58:50,109 --> 00:58:44,569
of Jung and the collective unconscious

1333
00:58:52,690 --> 00:58:50,119
and well there's it's if you're talking

1334
00:58:55,839 --> 00:58:52,700
about people you know groups of

1335
00:58:57,789 --> 00:58:55,849
individuals individuals for the hundreds

1336
00:59:00,190 --> 00:58:57,799
possibly thousands of years experiencing

1337
00:59:01,779 --> 00:59:00,200
something I strange and unusual there is

1338
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:01,789
at least in my mind there is the

1339
00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:03,410
possibility that something is emerging

1340
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:05,569
out of the collective that certain

1341
00:59:10,839 --> 00:59:09,049
individuals either by happenstance or by

1342
00:59:14,499 --> 00:59:10,849
design happen to be the ones to

1343
00:59:18,190 --> 00:59:14,509
experience he sings so I am identified

1344
00:59:20,890 --> 00:59:18,200
which was published in 1975 I think I

1345
00:59:22,509 --> 00:59:20,900
did many years ago in fact that was

1346
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:22,519
exactly the view expressed within that

1347
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:24,529
book and I don't I don't accept it

1348
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:25,130
anymore

1349
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:27,470
I think I don't even accept the

1350
00:59:31,630 --> 00:59:28,910
existence of a collective unconscious

1351
00:59:32,780 --> 00:59:31,640
one of Young's critics famously said the

1352
00:59:35,420 --> 00:59:32,790
collective unconscious

1353
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:35,430
existed in news library so I think that

1354
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:37,770
that the terms like this don't really

1355
00:59:44,060 --> 00:59:41,010
mean a lot but what happens is that

1356
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:44,070
there is a you know a culturally

1357
00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:47,040
reflective aspect which is at the core

1358
00:59:54,380 --> 00:59:50,430
of the experience anomaly in other words

1359
00:59:57,380 --> 00:59:54,390
the Society has its own definition of

1360
01:00:00,740 --> 00:59:57,390
what an otherworldly encounter is and

1361
01:00:03,590 --> 01:00:00,750
the experiences of individuals or small

1362
01:00:06,290 --> 01:00:03,600
groups of individuals with this other

1363
01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:06,300
world will reflect the culture sense of

1364
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:09,510
what an otherworldly experience is and

1365
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:12,480
so the nature of the experience is at

1366
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:14,490
least the superficial aspect the

1367
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:17,010
experiential aspect change over time and

1368
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:20,550
in location and geography and so you

1369
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:23,040
know there is this kind of you know

1370
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:25,650
there's cultural and social definition

1371
01:00:30,980 --> 01:00:27,720
of the experience oh absolutely

1372
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:30,990
but the experience itself behind the the

1373
01:00:37,940 --> 01:00:34,370
superficial forms is you know is I think

1374
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:37,950
the stimulus whatever it is is the same

1375
01:00:43,340 --> 01:00:40,290
it remains the same over time and I

1376
01:00:45,110 --> 01:00:43,350
think that in our own time our idea of

1377
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:45,120
another world experiences and connar

1378
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:47,910
with extraterrestrials and I think that

1379
01:00:51,590 --> 01:00:49,170
if there are real extraterrestrial

1380
01:00:54,410 --> 01:00:51,600
visiting here and if the galaxy is

1381
01:00:55,940 --> 01:00:54,420
densely populated as as many astronomers

1382
01:00:57,650 --> 01:00:55,950
say it is that's not wouldn't be

1383
01:01:00,140 --> 01:00:57,660
surprising at all be more surprising if

1384
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:00,150
they weren't here but we still have this

1385
01:01:07,310 --> 01:01:05,130
idea and that the concept the the

1386
01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:07,320
experience anomaly takes off from the

1387
01:01:11,810 --> 01:01:10,110
image of extraterrestrials because

1388
01:01:13,940 --> 01:01:11,820
that's our prevailing view of an

1389
01:01:15,950 --> 01:01:13,950
otherworldly encounter and then may at

1390
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:15,960
the core of this be actual encounters

1391
01:01:20,810 --> 01:01:18,450
with actual extraterrestrials but the

1392
01:01:24,260 --> 01:01:20,820
stuff that fall follows from that like

1393
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:24,270
other world journeys abductions men and

1394
01:01:30,290 --> 01:01:26,730
black Mothman things like this I think

1395
01:01:32,990 --> 01:01:30,300
really draw on much older materials

1396
01:01:36,590 --> 01:01:33,000
they've linked them to fairy lore and

1397
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:36,600
and angelic encounters and and demonic

1398
01:01:41,390 --> 01:01:38,520
entities that are figured in all of

1399
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:41,400
history that that are real as

1400
01:01:46,220 --> 01:01:44,640
experiences but apparently not as events

1401
01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:46,230
that you could ever document

1402
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:49,470
that the experienced anomaly survives

1403
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:51,480
only as I said earlier in memory and

1404
01:01:54,650 --> 01:01:53,490
testimony there's never anything you're

1405
01:01:56,810 --> 01:01:54,660
going to be able to bring into a

1406
01:01:59,030 --> 01:01:56,820
laboratory you're never go ahead trace

1407
01:02:01,640 --> 01:01:59,040
it on radar but it's going to be very

1408
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:01,650
real if it happens to you make you

1409
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:04,890
scratch your head well and frightening

1410
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:07,410
it startling scenario like this where

1411
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:09,930
you have you know little grades that are

1412
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,490
seen pretty much exclusively in the

1413
01:02:15,710 --> 01:02:13,440
United States and then all of a sudden

1414
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:15,720
has word of these of this particular

1415
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,290
form or symbolic sort of image spreads

1416
01:02:23,300 --> 01:02:21,359
and all of a sudden you see you're

1417
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:23,310
getting reports from further away from

1418
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:25,920
the US and and now it's a worldwide sort

1419
01:02:33,290 --> 01:02:29,730
of almost a cliche if you will have

1420
01:02:34,849 --> 01:02:33,300
cliches about gray aliens but we have to

1421
01:02:37,460 --> 01:02:34,859
do something which does not present a

1422
01:02:39,830 --> 01:02:37,470
cliche to us it's a message from our

1423
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:39,840
benefactors we have Jerry Clark Chris

1424
01:02:46,370 --> 01:02:42,000
O'Brien's the co-host um Jean Steinberg

1425
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else on earth from the Romans through

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the Renaissance from the Industrial Age

1454
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to the Space Age gold has weathered the

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test of time for six thousand years gold

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Council in the u.s. mints demand is at

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an all-time high the stage is being set

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for the re-emergence of gold as the

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to hear from you if you have a comment

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01:07:11,979 --> 01:07:09,259
or question about the para cast sent it

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to news at the para cast com

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01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:15,049
that's news at the pear cast comm but if

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you want to catch up on past episodes we

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download direct from the para cast com

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that's the para cast comm or check us

1521
01:07:33,549 --> 01:07:31,069
out on iTunes we continue with Jerome

1522
01:07:35,499 --> 01:07:33,559
Clark UFO historian our co-host is Chris

1523
01:07:38,229 --> 01:07:35,509
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1524
01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:38,239
para cast and Chris was asking the great

1525
01:07:42,849 --> 01:07:40,249
question here about the I guess the

1526
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:42,859
public conscious image of what UFO

1527
01:07:48,849 --> 01:07:46,880
aliens are so now it's Grey's but the

1528
01:07:50,589 --> 01:07:48,859
implication I gather Chris is what

1529
01:07:52,299 --> 01:07:50,599
you're saying is that isn't what they

1530
01:07:54,579 --> 01:07:52,309
are it's what we perceive them to be

1531
01:07:56,949 --> 01:07:54,589
well it seems to me there's a certain

1532
01:07:59,289 --> 01:07:56,959
aspect of front-loading it's almost like

1533
01:08:00,939 --> 01:07:59,299
if you expect to see something if you

1534
01:08:04,299 --> 01:08:00,949
have an unusual experience you tend to

1535
01:08:06,759 --> 01:08:04,309
revert to some sort of primal sort of

1536
01:08:09,879 --> 01:08:06,769
view of it and if you're front-loaded in

1537
01:08:12,009 --> 01:08:09,889
your the the culture the media has been

1538
01:08:14,349 --> 01:08:12,019
programming you with a particular image

1539
01:08:16,509 --> 01:08:14,359
it seems to me that you would tend to go

1540
01:08:18,729 --> 01:08:16,519
into that direction to put the details

1541
01:08:21,069 --> 01:08:18,739
on the experience so I think the the

1542
01:08:23,559 --> 01:08:21,079
good the little grey alien is a classic

1543
01:08:25,419 --> 01:08:23,569
example of that what do you think Jerry

1544
01:08:27,519 --> 01:08:25,429
well I think there's a lot more than

1545
01:08:28,569 --> 01:08:27,529
what you're saying again it's probably

1546
01:08:32,410 --> 01:08:28,579
not the whole truth

1547
01:08:34,689 --> 01:08:32,420
though gray aliens are showing up in c3

1548
01:08:37,569 --> 01:08:34,699
is well before they became a common

1549
01:08:39,759 --> 01:08:37,579
image in popular culture but I do agree

1550
01:08:43,180 --> 01:08:39,769
with you that I think this thing kind of

1551
01:08:45,339 --> 01:08:43,190
feeds on itself and you know somebody's

1552
01:08:48,089 --> 01:08:45,349
imagined experienced or even some

1553
01:08:50,769 --> 01:08:48,099
genuinely anomalous experience

1554
01:08:53,559 --> 01:08:50,779
phenomenon it's going to build on you

1555
01:08:56,019 --> 01:08:53,569
know on images that are known in the

1556
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:56,029
culture that are part of the the common

1557
01:09:00,519 --> 01:08:58,250
language of the culture so yeah I think

1558
01:09:03,759 --> 01:09:00,529
there's some truth what you're saying we

1559
01:09:06,459 --> 01:09:03,769
wonder why some of these cultural sort

1560
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:06,469
of versions of these high strange type

1561
01:09:11,620 --> 01:09:08,570
phenomena how they have a

1562
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:11,630
peculiar kind of a regional or sub

1563
01:09:15,550 --> 01:09:13,250
cultural aspect to them like for

1564
01:09:18,490 --> 01:09:15,560
instance you tend to see a lot more dark

1565
01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:18,500
hairy dwarf / alien reports from South

1566
01:09:24,370 --> 01:09:21,920
America as opposed to the types of more

1567
01:09:27,220 --> 01:09:24,380
clinical gray sort of you know small

1568
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:27,230
diminutive bald spindly characters it

1569
01:09:30,850 --> 01:09:28,970
that have been reported I think most

1570
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,860
often in the United States but as I

1571
01:09:35,350 --> 01:09:32,480
pointed out is now a worldwide thing

1572
01:09:37,870 --> 01:09:35,360
what aspect or what element of the

1573
01:09:39,700 --> 01:09:37,880
culture do you think can program the

1574
01:09:41,140 --> 01:09:39,710
details of its individual experience

1575
01:09:44,020 --> 01:09:41,150
like that I mean what what is it that

1576
01:09:46,270 --> 01:09:44,030
makes these particular areas report

1577
01:09:48,730 --> 01:09:46,280
these particular types of descriptions

1578
01:09:50,650 --> 01:09:48,740
one subject of great interest to me

1579
01:09:52,210 --> 01:09:50,660
which I've written about at various

1580
01:09:55,060 --> 01:09:52,220
times and including in my most recent

1581
01:09:57,790 --> 01:09:55,070
book hidden realms it is the traditional

1582
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:57,800
fairy lore and fairies had consistent

1583
01:10:01,930 --> 01:09:59,840
features in them in a broad sense

1584
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:01,940
wherever they were experienced and they

1585
01:10:07,180 --> 01:10:04,190
were experienced all over the world

1586
01:10:10,900 --> 01:10:07,190
which is a mystery in itself but each

1587
01:10:13,870 --> 01:10:10,910
fairy culture was suited to its human

1588
01:10:18,130 --> 01:10:13,880
neighbourhood so even though the kinds

1589
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:18,140
of behaviors and personalities and in

1590
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:20,960
just general phenomenology of fairies

1591
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:23,570
with the same worldwide in every area

1592
01:10:28,060 --> 01:10:25,730
where they were experienced in every

1593
01:10:29,950 --> 01:10:28,070
little culture and subculture the

1594
01:10:31,930 --> 01:10:29,960
fairies in some ways reflected their

1595
01:10:34,620 --> 01:10:31,940
human neighborhood and that did make

1596
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:34,630
their experiences the experiences of

1597
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:36,770
encountering them any less frightening

1598
01:10:42,190 --> 01:10:39,130
or mysterious but it did suggest that

1599
01:10:46,090 --> 01:10:42,200
whatever was stimulating fairy

1600
01:10:49,570 --> 01:10:46,100
encounters it wasn't a real fairy race

1601
01:10:50,650 --> 01:10:49,580
that coexisted with us that exists is

1602
01:10:53,260 --> 01:10:50,660
apart from us

1603
01:10:55,450 --> 01:10:53,270
that the experiences were tied to the

1604
01:10:58,030 --> 01:10:55,460
human expectation of them in some

1605
01:11:00,370 --> 01:10:58,040
strange way now something of that may be

1606
01:11:02,860 --> 01:11:00,380
playing housing with you know UFO

1607
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:02,870
occupant reports well there's a real

1608
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:05,090
phenomenon it's mysterious phenomenon

1609
01:11:11,410 --> 01:11:09,290
but we are involved in fashioning our

1610
01:11:12,730 --> 01:11:11,420
experiences of it well it's it's

1611
01:11:14,140 --> 01:11:12,740
interesting should point it out because

1612
01:11:16,420 --> 01:11:14,150
in one hand you're saying that there is

1613
01:11:18,340 --> 01:11:16,430
no sort of in your mind the possibility

1614
01:11:19,780 --> 01:11:18,350
of a collective sort of a collective

1615
01:11:22,190 --> 01:11:19,790
unconscious that would be able to

1616
01:11:24,170 --> 01:11:22,200
manufacture these types of commonality

1617
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:24,180
but on the other hand you're kind of

1618
01:11:28,250 --> 01:11:25,920
saying that there is so where do you

1619
01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:28,260
draw the line between between those two

1620
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:30,150
viewpoints this is really I think this

1621
01:11:35,150 --> 01:11:32,010
is fascinating stuff this is this is to

1622
01:11:37,220 --> 01:11:35,160
me where the real meat is on the bone in

1623
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:37,230
this subject and I don't agree this is

1624
01:11:42,350 --> 01:11:39,330
the meat in the bone I think this is the

1625
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:42,360
shadow this is not the meat in the bone

1626
01:11:46,490 --> 01:11:44,310
the meat in the bonus is a close

1627
01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:46,500
encounter of the second kind or the

1628
01:11:52,430 --> 01:11:49,260
radar visual laughs of the meat this is

1629
01:11:55,850 --> 01:11:52,440
the gold okay this is the shadow of the

1630
01:11:57,260 --> 01:11:55,860
meat this is the burp after the meal you

1631
01:11:59,390 --> 01:11:57,270
know when I say meat is bond this is

1632
01:12:01,070 --> 01:11:59,400
what really excites me about about

1633
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:01,080
ufology I am involved right now in a

1634
01:12:04,580 --> 01:12:02,760
hard data monitoring project seven

1635
01:12:07,220 --> 01:12:04,590
cameras monitoring one of the hottest

1636
01:12:10,420 --> 01:12:07,230
spots in North America I do realize that

1637
01:12:14,180 --> 01:12:10,430
hard data gathering properly scientific

1638
01:12:15,980 --> 01:12:14,190
protocols are really the way to go and I

1639
01:12:17,780 --> 01:12:15,990
think is the most important approach and

1640
01:12:20,510 --> 01:12:17,790
I'm hoping to talk about that later but

1641
01:12:22,370 --> 01:12:20,520
in terms of what intellectually really

1642
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:22,380
gets me fired up is this shadow around

1643
01:12:26,990 --> 01:12:25,050
this ancient aspect to this whole thing

1644
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:27,000
that we've been talking about I

1645
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:29,370
completely concur with you that that is

1646
01:12:34,730 --> 01:12:32,880
well I had focused on in the last 15

1647
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:34,740
years in which I will continue to be

1648
01:12:39,950 --> 01:12:37,650
most interested in yes you know like

1649
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:39,960
Phil and Bragg no and in ellen guiley

1650
01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:42,570
right now writing a book on the gin the

1651
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:45,510
wonderful work that's been done by Phil

1652
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:48,690
in this realm and yourself and others

1653
01:12:59,210 --> 01:12:50,250
Jacques Vallee of course in a more

1654
01:13:03,380 --> 01:13:01,790
Oh tell us why I think that in the

1655
01:13:06,740 --> 01:13:03,390
current issue of international flow

1656
01:13:08,750 --> 01:13:06,750
reporter I have an extended review the

1657
01:13:11,210 --> 01:13:08,760
new book wonders in the sky by Jacques

1658
01:13:13,820 --> 01:13:11,220
Vallee and Chris avec and I encourage

1659
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:13,830
people to read that extended review it's

1660
01:13:18,020 --> 01:13:16,290
in the international reporter is

1661
01:13:21,290 --> 01:13:18,030
published by the Center for UFO studies

1662
01:13:25,610 --> 01:13:21,300
which need your support who was bored I

1663
01:13:29,690 --> 01:13:25,620
serve and I think that valet has made

1664
01:13:33,590 --> 01:13:29,700
some legitimate points but he really has

1665
01:13:36,450 --> 01:13:33,600
really I think abused the evidence and

1666
01:13:39,300 --> 01:13:36,460
the argument I just really have a

1667
01:13:41,729 --> 01:13:39,310
problem and also valets hostility to the

1668
01:13:44,700 --> 01:13:41,739
extra-terrestrial hypothesis is just

1669
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:44,710
simply unwarranted and what the problem

1670
01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:47,650
basically the approaches like valets or

1671
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:49,750
John keels for that matter it is that

1672
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:53,110
it's just total istic it demands that

1673
01:13:58,350 --> 01:13:56,170
one size fit all well it seems to me

1674
01:14:00,300 --> 01:13:58,360
that one thing that should be very clear

1675
01:14:02,610 --> 01:14:00,310
about anomalies generally in the UFO

1676
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:02,620
phenomena specifically is that one size

1677
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:03,730
does not fit all

1678
01:14:09,810 --> 01:14:06,610
that there are things that going on

1679
01:14:12,060 --> 01:14:09,820
under the rubric of anomalies or UFOs

1680
01:14:15,180 --> 01:14:12,070
that are fundamentally unalike and I

1681
01:14:17,910 --> 01:14:15,190
mean epistemologically unrelated and

1682
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:17,920
unless you can see that you're just

1683
01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:20,560
contributing noise to the argument so

1684
01:14:25,410 --> 01:14:22,480
then there is not just a UFO mystery

1685
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:25,420
there is a UFO mystery and the UFO

1686
01:14:31,770 --> 01:14:28,570
mystery there is the event phenomenon

1687
01:14:34,050 --> 01:14:31,780
and the experience phenomenon and this

1688
01:14:38,580 --> 01:14:34,060
plays out through a wide range of

1689
01:14:41,340 --> 01:14:38,590
anomalies not just UFOs and even in you

1690
01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:41,350
can even bring it into things like ball

1691
01:14:45,780 --> 01:14:43,780
lightning which is a recognized natural

1692
01:14:49,170 --> 01:14:45,790
phenomenon but a rather mysterious and

1693
01:14:53,700 --> 01:14:49,180
elusive one and and you see experience

1694
01:14:58,290 --> 01:14:53,710
anomalies rolling out of the event

1695
01:15:03,000 --> 01:14:58,300
phenomenon of ball lightning and you

1696
01:15:06,930 --> 01:15:03,010
know you've just got to define stuff you

1697
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:06,940
can't just say that well okay there was

1698
01:15:15,660 --> 01:15:11,410
the RB 47 case which perfect evidence of

1699
01:15:17,610 --> 01:15:15,670
a complex sophisticated advanced

1700
01:15:19,740 --> 01:15:17,620
technology that does not exist on earth

1701
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:19,750
and that it is reasonable to infer as

1702
01:15:26,250 --> 01:15:22,930
extraterrestrial origin and then grab

1703
01:15:28,830 --> 01:15:26,260
the bottle Mothman sighting and say that

1704
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:28,840
Mothman sightings overrides hard

1705
01:15:34,290 --> 01:15:31,360
evidence cases like RB 47 or the

1706
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:34,300
transcend provence landing trace case

1707
01:15:37,890 --> 01:15:35,890
and things like this I'll tell you what

1708
01:15:39,870 --> 01:15:37,900
we'll pursue that further detail in a

1709
01:15:41,850 --> 01:15:39,880
moment we have Jerry Clark the co-host

1710
01:15:46,230 --> 01:15:41,860
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

1711
01:15:52,580 --> 01:15:49,209
[Music]

1712
01:15:55,310 --> 01:15:52,590
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1713
01:15:57,580 --> 01:15:55,320
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1714
01:15:59,959 --> 01:15:57,590
relentless perplexing nightmares

1715
01:16:01,879 --> 01:15:59,969
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1716
01:16:04,129 --> 01:16:01,889
space and of a mysterious woman

1717
01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:04,139
suffering an agony for her devastated

1718
01:16:11,290 --> 01:16:07,289
world a woman not yet born calling

1719
01:16:13,969 --> 01:16:11,300
across centuries to him then a

1720
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:13,979
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1721
01:16:19,429 --> 01:16:17,280
chance to alter the universe attack of

1722
01:16:21,679 --> 01:16:19,439
the Rockets the former fiction editor

1723
01:16:23,989 --> 01:16:21,689
for Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

1724
01:16:26,060 --> 01:16:23,999
Simpson writes the soul of the novel

1725
01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:26,070
attack of the Rockets lies in its heart

1726
01:16:29,899 --> 01:16:27,840
and passion for building a convincing

1727
01:16:33,109 --> 01:16:29,909
tale of a love that spans the galaxy a

1728
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:33,119
thrilling storm attack of the rocket is

1729
01:16:37,489 --> 01:16:35,760
available now read a sample chapter and

1730
01:16:40,069 --> 01:16:37,499
get a special discount off of the cover

1731
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price at our website raah codes calm

1732
01:16:47,719 --> 01:16:45,719
that's our Ock o IDs calm attack of the

1733
01:16:50,569 --> 01:16:47,729
rottens a novel in the grand

1734
01:16:52,189 --> 01:16:50,579
science-fiction tradition normal blood

1735
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:52,199
pressure naturally how would that make

1736
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:54,449
you feel I'm dawn from New Mexico

1737
01:16:58,939 --> 01:16:56,880
January of 2000 I had a heart attack

1738
01:17:01,879 --> 01:16:58,949
then my real health began going downhill

1739
01:17:03,679 --> 01:17:01,889
and I had high blood pressure high blood

1740
01:17:05,959 --> 01:17:03,689
sugar and poor vision and I really

1741
01:17:06,409 --> 01:17:05,969
wasn't sleeping well I was a mess pretty

1742
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:06,419
much

1743
01:17:09,770 --> 01:17:08,010
Don reports dramatic improvements with

1744
01:17:12,140 --> 01:17:09,780
heart and body extracts I started taking

1745
01:17:13,879 --> 01:17:12,150
a hardened body extract and from within

1746
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,889
a few days I started sleeping a lot

1747
01:17:17,899 --> 01:17:15,360
better my blood pressure

1748
01:17:20,179 --> 01:17:17,909
normalized my blood sugar normalized and

1749
01:17:21,679 --> 01:17:20,189
my sleep really did improve experience

1750
01:17:23,330 --> 01:17:21,689
these benefits and more when your body

1751
01:17:25,549 --> 01:17:23,340
gets what it needs with the assistance

1752
01:17:28,250 --> 01:17:25,559
of heart and body extract order at HB

1753
01:17:32,330 --> 01:17:28,260
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1754
01:17:38,750 --> 01:17:32,340
nine five 5305 that's HB extract calm or

1755
01:17:41,350 --> 01:17:38,760
call eight six six two nine five 5305 I

1756
01:17:44,779 --> 01:17:41,360
saw dramatic improvements from taking

1757
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:44,789
details at HB extract calm or call eight

1758
01:17:51,620 --> 01:17:48,300
six six two nine five 5305 for heart and

1759
01:17:53,449 --> 01:17:51,630
body extract hi I'm mark Craig head

1760
01:17:55,549 --> 01:17:53,459
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1761
01:17:57,330 --> 01:17:55,559
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1762
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1763
01:18:01,800 --> 01:17:59,350
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1764
01:18:03,450 --> 01:18:01,810
and gouged while carrying concealed the

1765
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:03,460
super tuck deluxe is the most

1766
01:18:07,890 --> 01:18:05,770
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1767
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1768
01:18:13,140 --> 01:18:10,300
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1769
01:18:17,940 --> 01:18:13,150
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1770
01:18:20,550 --> 01:18:17,950
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1771
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:20,560
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1772
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:22,810
football give yourself the competitive

1773
01:18:27,810 --> 01:18:24,970
edge with the National underclassmen

1774
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:27,820
football combine and UC is the longest

1775
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:29,890
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1776
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respected combine in football camp in

1777
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:34,540
the nation specifically designed to give

1778
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:36,370
athletes early recruiting exposure

1779
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:38,080
there's no better time than now to

1780
01:18:44,970 --> 01:18:40,510
compete in the National underclassmen

1781
01:18:47,580 --> 01:18:44,980
football combine and you see MVP one go

1782
01:18:51,570 --> 01:18:47,590
to national underclassmen calm to find

1783
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out more has done it again

1784
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1785
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1786
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1787
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1788
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1789
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1790
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1791
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1792
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can go to freeze-dry guide.com click on

1793
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1794
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1795
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1796
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1797
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1798
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1799
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1800
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1801
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example this month get 10% back in

1802
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1803
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1804
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1805
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1806
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1807
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1808
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1809
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1810
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1811
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1812
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[Music]

1813
01:20:03,360 --> 01:19:56,650
on air online and on demand we are the

1814
01:20:05,220 --> 01:20:03,370
gzn radio network this is Leslie Kane

1815
01:20:07,410 --> 01:20:05,230
and I'm with the Coalition for freedom

1816
01:20:11,190 --> 01:20:07,420
of information and you are listening to

1817
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:11,200
the podcast we're trying to look at the

1818
01:20:15,630 --> 01:20:13,210
lines of demarcation between the various

1819
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:15,640
aspects of the UFO mystery and I have a

1820
01:20:19,500 --> 01:20:17,050
question that occurs to me which will

1821
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,510
bring up in a moment we have Jerry Clark

1822
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:21,520
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1823
01:20:25,260 --> 01:20:23,650
Steinberg you're in the power cast so

1824
01:20:27,930 --> 01:20:25,270
okay we have people crying for

1825
01:20:30,150 --> 01:20:27,940
disclosure now disclosure implies that

1826
01:20:33,090 --> 01:20:30,160
we know most of the answer and the

1827
01:20:35,220 --> 01:20:33,100
government will affirm that et is here

1828
01:20:37,470 --> 01:20:35,230
but you're painting the picture of

1829
01:20:41,220 --> 01:20:37,480
something so much more complicated that

1830
01:20:44,220 --> 01:20:41,230
maybe we have to look for a whole other

1831
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:44,230
issue and if the government has anything

1832
01:20:48,150 --> 01:20:46,090
to disclose would they be interested in

1833
01:20:50,430 --> 01:20:48,160
all this other stuff well I think that

1834
01:20:53,460 --> 01:20:50,440
let's just assume for the sake of

1835
01:20:55,020 --> 01:20:53,470
discussion here there's some elements

1836
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:55,030
coming that's really innocent UFOs

1837
01:20:58,740 --> 01:20:56,800
really is working on it and trying to

1838
01:21:02,910 --> 01:20:58,750
solve it maybe I solve some of it I

1839
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:02,920
think at some point somebody pointed out

1840
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:05,260
to the mud look you know exciting the

1841
01:21:12,660 --> 01:21:08,290
Mothman are not the same thing it's the

1842
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:12,670
hard evidence cases and that if we're

1843
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:13,930
going to learn anything we're really

1844
01:21:16,650 --> 01:21:15,280
going to have to focus on the hard

1845
01:21:18,420 --> 01:21:16,660
evidence cases because all you're going

1846
01:21:20,340 --> 01:21:18,430
to get if you look at the Mothman

1847
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:20,350
sightings are men and black and the

1848
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:22,330
abductions and the other worlds journeys

1849
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:24,010
on you're just going to get a bunch of

1850
01:21:28,710 --> 01:21:27,250
strange scary stories that you know the

1851
01:21:30,630 --> 01:21:28,720
person who tells them seems perfectly

1852
01:21:32,940 --> 01:21:30,640
sincere insane but it's not going to get

1853
01:21:35,610 --> 01:21:32,950
you anywhere if these things just don't

1854
01:21:38,850 --> 01:21:35,620
they don't get anywhere they just have

1855
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:38,860
to be seen via experience anomalies as

1856
01:21:43,530 --> 01:21:41,650
pure testimony that's pure experience

1857
01:21:45,540 --> 01:21:43,540
and nothing else because they don't they

1858
01:21:49,020 --> 01:21:45,550
don't get you beyond that you can't

1859
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,030
prove that fairies for example exist you

1860
01:21:54,390 --> 01:21:52,000
can deduce that even though they don't

1861
01:21:56,550 --> 01:21:54,400
exist they can be experienced in some

1862
01:21:58,470 --> 01:21:56,560
mysterious fashion which seems

1863
01:22:00,720 --> 01:21:58,480
manifestly true and even many

1864
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:00,730
folklorists who have studied the these

1865
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:03,489
this lure in the field acknowledged that

1866
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:05,530
yes these people seem completely sincere

1867
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:08,050
say that they had this experience but

1868
01:22:13,950 --> 01:22:10,570
you know it's the difference between you

1869
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:13,960
know accepting somebody's story but

1870
01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:16,450
rejecting this explanation well okay so

1871
01:22:21,420 --> 01:22:19,840
if Stanton Friedman is affirmed and the

1872
01:22:23,100 --> 01:22:21,430
government says well they're coming here

1873
01:22:25,229 --> 01:22:23,110
from Zeta Reticuli we don't know their

1874
01:22:28,710 --> 01:22:25,239
purpose they do not appear to present a

1875
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,720
threat to our planet there you go we

1876
01:22:34,860 --> 01:22:31,120
would have maybe a solution there but

1877
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:34,870
this experiential phenomena that would

1878
01:22:40,050 --> 01:22:37,110
be a totally different ball of wax right

1879
01:22:42,090 --> 01:22:40,060
right yeah I think that if there are

1880
01:22:44,100 --> 01:22:42,100
extra trestles this thing earth will

1881
01:22:47,190 --> 01:22:44,110
will know that because that's

1882
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:47,200
conceivable in fact the argument of ET

1883
01:22:51,660 --> 01:22:49,810
oriented ufologists is pretty much

1884
01:22:54,180 --> 01:22:51,670
indistinguishable from the argument the

1885
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:54,190
reasoning of the the SETI oriented

1886
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:56,410
astronomer it's just that the study

1887
01:22:59,580 --> 01:22:58,000
people don't want to deal with UFO

1888
01:23:01,770 --> 01:22:59,590
reports so they make up reasons to

1889
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:01,780
ignore them but basically the argument

1890
01:23:05,340 --> 01:23:03,970
is the same is that we have reason to

1891
01:23:06,330 --> 01:23:05,350
believe in fact drawing reason to

1892
01:23:08,610 --> 01:23:06,340
believe there are all kinds of

1893
01:23:10,440 --> 01:23:08,620
extrasolar planets millions and millions

1894
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:10,450
and millions of them and many of them

1895
01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:12,850
are burnt elgyn civilizations and as a

1896
01:23:16,380 --> 01:23:14,830
galaxy if life is that you pick at

1897
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:16,390
Whistling galaxies that densely

1898
01:23:20,130 --> 01:23:18,850
populated it's not all surprising that

1899
01:23:22,380 --> 01:23:20,140
we're going to find evidence of their

1900
01:23:25,710 --> 01:23:22,390
existence and probably some of them are

1901
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:25,720
going to come over here and the vehicles

1902
01:23:29,700 --> 01:23:27,280
that their advanced technology made

1903
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:29,710
possible extraterrestrial visitation

1904
01:23:34,260 --> 01:23:32,410
really shouldn't be heresy it may be

1905
01:23:37,229 --> 01:23:34,270
happening or may not be happening but

1906
01:23:40,470 --> 01:23:37,239
it's not a ridiculous or absurd idea and

1907
01:23:43,380 --> 01:23:40,480
some UFO reports indeed are susceptible

1908
01:23:45,180 --> 01:23:43,390
most reasonably to that explanation on

1909
01:23:47,370 --> 01:23:45,190
this the other stuff that really causes

1910
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:47,380
all the confusion the discussion gets

1911
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:50,530
clogged up with all kinds of high

1912
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:53,370
strangest material which is just simply

1913
01:24:00,120 --> 01:23:56,770
unprovable and so if you reject all the

1914
01:24:04,050 --> 01:24:00,130
testimony is false or the product of

1915
01:24:06,770 --> 01:24:04,060
delusion all you've got left is making

1916
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:06,780
up phony explanations that don't explain

1917
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:09,520
there has to be some third alternative

1918
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:13,570
that yes this is valid testimony we but

1919
01:24:19,950 --> 01:24:14,650
it

1920
01:24:22,830 --> 01:24:19,960
unexplainable

1921
01:24:25,100 --> 01:24:22,840
maybe inexplicable at the state of

1922
01:24:29,010 --> 01:24:25,110
knowledge and these are real experiences

1923
01:24:33,180 --> 01:24:29,020
but they don't tell us that that they're

1924
01:24:35,250 --> 01:24:33,190
moth men exist in the ecosystem or that

1925
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:35,260
there are fairies living in caves and on

1926
01:24:42,300 --> 01:24:38,290
mountaintops it just means that in some

1927
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:42,310
way we have experiences of extraordinary

1928
01:24:49,020 --> 01:24:46,449
phenomena but there unprovable there

1929
01:24:50,010 --> 01:24:49,030
experience about but unprovable you know

1930
01:24:51,660 --> 01:24:50,020
when you talk to someone like Stan

1931
01:24:53,790 --> 01:24:51,670
Freedman again who was on last week's

1932
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:53,800
episode of the power cast he'll say that

1933
01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:56,170
some of these more mystical power

1934
01:25:00,600 --> 01:24:57,760
normal-type events this more

1935
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:00,610
experiential phenomena that part of it

1936
01:25:04,979 --> 01:25:03,010
is because what the UFOs do is so

1937
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:04,989
magical to us because they're so far in

1938
01:25:10,169 --> 01:25:07,330
advance that they can create all this

1939
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:10,179
stuff that this is still part of their

1940
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:13,810
reality yeah I that I've heard that I

1941
01:25:18,450 --> 01:25:15,130
mean it forward stretching is really

1942
01:25:20,580 --> 01:25:18,460
reductive now you have to remember that

1943
01:25:26,370 --> 01:25:20,590
you're the awful phenomenon is a pretty

1944
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:26,380
recent arrival in a long long historical

1945
01:25:31,649 --> 01:25:29,400
tradition of extraordinary phenomenon

1946
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:31,659
the this straight

1947
01:25:38,180 --> 01:25:34,690
exit wrestler potus's which is what Stan

1948
01:25:41,879 --> 01:25:38,190
Freedman advocates and often eloquently

1949
01:25:45,570 --> 01:25:41,889
would be more persuasive if there were

1950
01:25:47,729 --> 01:25:45,580
no other traditions of weird events and

1951
01:25:51,140 --> 01:25:47,739
we're refusing weird experiences in

1952
01:25:54,660 --> 01:25:51,150
human history but there's this enormous

1953
01:26:01,430 --> 01:25:54,670
background noise of all kinds of just

1954
01:26:05,220 --> 01:26:01,440
bizarre sights experiences phenomena and

1955
01:26:08,580 --> 01:26:05,230
to argue as stan does this really to

1956
01:26:11,129 --> 01:26:08,590
argue I think from y'all to be may be

1957
01:26:14,370 --> 01:26:11,139
charitable here not a great deal of

1958
01:26:17,790 --> 01:26:14,380
knowledge of what this material consists

1959
01:26:20,820 --> 01:26:17,800
of there is no reason to believe that

1960
01:26:22,950 --> 01:26:20,830
UFO has existed thousands of years ago

1961
01:26:24,780 --> 01:26:22,960
and consistently covered themselves up

1962
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:24,790
by appearing in all kinds of other ways

1963
01:26:31,020 --> 01:26:28,449
what about visiting Earthlings in

1964
01:26:34,799 --> 01:26:31,030
all times some of those sound like UFO

1965
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:34,809
related experiences like what well was

1966
01:26:39,060 --> 01:26:37,090
he keels wheels well I don't think his

1967
01:26:41,129 --> 01:26:39,070
eCos wheel fell like they don't strike

1968
01:26:43,199 --> 01:26:41,139
they struck me it's just kind of you

1969
01:26:45,989 --> 01:26:43,209
know I experienced anomaly some you know

1970
01:26:48,239 --> 01:26:45,999
some visionary experiences you really

1971
01:26:51,779 --> 01:26:48,249
have to be determined to find evidence

1972
01:26:54,629 --> 01:26:51,789
of extraterrestrials to unpack that into

1973
01:26:56,489 --> 01:26:54,639
a UFO report I think that the stuff in

1974
01:26:58,799 --> 01:26:56,499
the Bible just sounds like you know a

1975
01:27:03,419 --> 01:26:58,809
whole worldwide tradition of

1976
01:27:04,649 --> 01:27:03,429
supernatural experiences and we value

1977
01:27:06,779 --> 01:27:04,659
and that's a that doesn't necessarily

1978
01:27:09,810 --> 01:27:06,789
relate to what's going on now so when

1979
01:27:12,180 --> 01:27:09,820
did UFO a rival appear to have happened

1980
01:27:13,890 --> 01:27:12,190
was it all after World War two or some

1981
01:27:15,270 --> 01:27:13,900
of these older cases do they seem to

1982
01:27:17,430 --> 01:27:15,280
have some kind of evidence for them

1983
01:27:20,549 --> 01:27:17,440
certainly charles fort is an example of

1984
01:27:22,589 --> 01:27:20,559
older cases well that's a complicated

1985
01:27:24,799 --> 01:27:22,599
question but I'll try to go for the

1986
01:27:28,319 --> 01:27:24,809
simple answer what I'm here for

1987
01:27:30,060 --> 01:27:28,329
because it I could it it is very

1988
01:27:31,949 --> 01:27:30,070
complicated okay

1989
01:27:36,410 --> 01:27:31,959
how do we know when you have both showed

1990
01:27:39,719 --> 01:27:36,420
up well we we go into reports

1991
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:39,729
contemporary reports reports that were

1992
01:27:45,660 --> 01:27:43,050
published at the time of their currents

1993
01:27:48,330 --> 01:27:45,670
and we look at what the people were

1994
01:27:50,580 --> 01:27:48,340
describing if you do that you can go

1995
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:50,590
back two or three centuries with some

1996
01:27:55,259 --> 01:27:52,530
confidence and find here and there

1997
01:27:59,040 --> 01:27:55,269
reports that sound very much like modern

1998
01:28:01,589 --> 01:27:59,050
UFO reports I found a particularly

1999
01:28:06,719 --> 01:28:01,599
striking one in an upstate New York

2000
01:28:09,089 --> 01:28:06,729
newspaper from late 1887

2001
01:28:12,629 --> 01:28:09,099
what's on very much like they like this

2002
01:28:14,339 --> 01:28:12,639
and this was published at the time these

2003
01:28:16,799 --> 01:28:14,349
are the reports that give you some

2004
01:28:18,569 --> 01:28:16,809
confidence that there was a UFO

2005
01:28:23,549 --> 01:28:18,579
phenomenon as we understanding

2006
01:28:25,770 --> 01:28:23,559
understand it occurring long ago as in

2007
01:28:28,830 --> 01:28:25,780
centuries ago or several centuries ago

2008
01:28:31,109 --> 01:28:28,840
anyway the farther back you go the less

2009
01:28:32,910 --> 01:28:31,119
certain that gets and you're dealing

2010
01:28:35,489 --> 01:28:32,920
with a lot of what just Psalms would be

2011
01:28:39,179 --> 01:28:35,499
classic visionary you're experienced

2012
01:28:41,790 --> 01:28:39,189
anomaly stuff when you get into things

2013
01:28:44,370 --> 01:28:41,800
like the 1897

2014
01:28:47,910 --> 01:28:44,380
airships you're not you're dealing with

2015
01:28:50,430 --> 01:28:47,920
something that has been falsely absorbed

2016
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:50,440
into UFO history the phantom airships

2017
01:28:55,310 --> 01:28:52,960
had nothing to do with UFOs as we

2018
01:28:58,020 --> 01:28:55,320
understand them they were very strange

2019
01:29:01,500 --> 01:28:58,030
extremely weird but they weren't UFOs as

2020
01:29:04,650 --> 01:29:01,510
we understand UFOs the modern UFO era I

2021
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:04,660
really think begins after I read Keith

2022
01:29:10,590 --> 01:29:07,330
Chester's very good book on UFOs in

2023
01:29:13,950 --> 01:29:10,600
world war ii it's called strange company

2024
01:29:17,670 --> 01:29:13,960
and Chester shows I think that the

2025
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:17,680
modern UFO era really began during not

2026
01:29:23,130 --> 01:29:20,650
after World War two but that the world

2027
01:29:26,460 --> 01:29:23,140
was so absorbed in fighting this

2028
01:29:29,250 --> 01:29:26,470
horrendous conflict that people just

2029
01:29:31,470 --> 01:29:29,260
weren't paying it that kind of attention

2030
01:29:33,540 --> 01:29:31,480
I tell you we have to pay attention to

2031
01:29:35,190 --> 01:29:33,550
this Jerry let's pay attention to the

2032
01:29:37,260 --> 01:29:35,200
fact that we have Jerry Clark the

2033
01:29:46,750 --> 01:29:37,270
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2034
01:29:51,669 --> 01:29:48,959
[Music]

2035
01:29:54,430 --> 01:29:51,679
are you ready to order the official

2036
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:54,440
power cast t-shirt you asked we answered

2037
01:30:00,549 --> 01:29:56,510
we're now taking orders for the official

2038
01:30:02,830 --> 01:30:00,559
para cast t-shirt it comes in white 100%

2039
01:30:05,140 --> 01:30:02,840
cotton the front of it features the same

2040
01:30:08,049 --> 01:30:05,150
logo that we have on our community

2041
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:08,059
forums on the back it says separating

2042
01:30:13,810 --> 01:30:11,690
signal from noise to order the official

2043
01:30:16,149 --> 01:30:13,820
power cast t-shirt here's all you have

2044
01:30:20,049 --> 01:30:16,159
to do visit our new online store at

2045
01:30:22,930 --> 01:30:20,059
store dot the para cast dot-com one more

2046
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:22,940
time that's store dot the para cast come

2047
01:30:28,270 --> 01:30:25,489
you can use a major credit card to place

2048
01:30:30,850 --> 01:30:28,280
your order for the official para cast

2049
01:30:32,859 --> 01:30:30,860
t-shirt hey neighbors we have one more

2050
01:30:35,259 --> 01:30:32,869
thing to talk about and that's more

2051
01:30:37,569 --> 01:30:35,269
merchandise at the official power cast

2052
01:30:39,180 --> 01:30:37,579
store we have hats we have jackets we

2053
01:30:41,589 --> 01:30:39,190
even have a flip Video camcorder

2054
01:30:44,290 --> 01:30:41,599
customized with the power cast logo at

2055
01:30:46,239 --> 01:30:44,300
the official para cast store it's all

2056
01:30:50,410 --> 01:30:46,249
now available at the official power cast

2057
01:30:52,209 --> 01:30:50,420
store store dot the para casts comm we

2058
01:30:53,799 --> 01:30:52,219
all know that berkey water purification

2059
01:30:56,020 --> 01:30:53,809
systems are the most trusted name in

2060
01:30:57,729 --> 01:30:56,030
water filtration as an authorized Berkey

2061
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:57,739
dealer for over five years ain't serving

2062
01:31:01,989 --> 01:30:59,840
thousands of satisfied customers the

2063
01:31:03,969 --> 01:31:01,999
Berkey guy offers amazing specials for

2064
01:31:05,649 --> 01:31:03,979
berkey water filtration systems the

2065
01:31:07,569 --> 01:31:05,659
murky light systems include a set of

2066
01:31:09,489 --> 01:31:07,579
self-sterilizing INRI cleanable black

2067
01:31:11,830 --> 01:31:09,499
purification elements that purify water

2068
01:31:14,020 --> 01:31:11,840
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

2069
01:31:16,149 --> 01:31:14,030
cysts and parasites two non detectable

2070
01:31:18,430 --> 01:31:16,159
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

2071
01:31:20,290 --> 01:31:18,440
as herbicides and pesticides order the

2072
01:31:22,089 --> 01:31:20,300
Berkey light system today complete with

2073
01:31:23,979 --> 01:31:22,099
two black per key elements for only two

2074
01:31:25,719 --> 01:31:23,989
hundred and nine dollars and the burka

2075
01:31:27,700 --> 01:31:25,729
guide will include three sport murky

2076
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:27,710
water bottles and ship everything to you

2077
01:31:31,450 --> 01:31:29,690
free of charge that's right

2078
01:31:33,370 --> 01:31:31,460
three sport berkey water bottles and

2079
01:31:35,770 --> 01:31:33,380
free shipping an eighty seven dollar

2080
01:31:37,569 --> 01:31:35,780
value yours free called the Berkey guy

2081
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:37,579
at one eight seventy seven eight eight

2082
01:31:42,459 --> 01:31:40,130
six three six five three that's one

2083
01:31:45,339 --> 01:31:42,469
eight seven seven eight eight six three

2084
01:31:46,239 --> 01:31:45,349
six five three or order online at Gober

2085
01:31:52,509 --> 01:31:46,249
Keep Calm

2086
01:31:55,810 --> 01:31:52,519
the Constitution like the back of your

2087
01:31:59,020 --> 01:31:55,820
hand you've read books listen to podcast

2088
01:32:02,470 --> 01:31:59,030
tests attended lectures surfed websites

2089
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:02,480
and watched videos you've made Liberty

2090
01:32:11,050 --> 01:32:06,650
your life's goal but something seems to

2091
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:11,060
be missing stickers from Liberty

2092
01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:13,730
stickers calm exercise your freedom of

2093
01:32:17,709 --> 01:32:15,170
speech with the world's most dangerous

2094
01:32:22,180 --> 01:32:17,719
bumper stickers that's Liberty Snickers

2095
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:22,190
dot-com but wait there's more you can

2096
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:24,050
find Liberty stickers wholesale get them

2097
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:25,730
for 99 cents each when you put a hundred

2098
01:32:28,629 --> 01:32:26,960
or more on your shopping cart in any

2099
01:32:30,729 --> 01:32:28,639
combination sell them or give them away

2100
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:30,739
the great for gun shows flea markets

2101
01:32:35,229 --> 01:32:32,719
fairs outreach and more earn extra money

2102
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:35,239
promote freedom and spread the word the

2103
01:32:38,950 --> 01:32:37,130
custom stickers labels are decals for

2104
01:32:40,510 --> 01:32:38,960
your organization or business Liberty

2105
01:32:42,339 --> 01:32:40,520
stickers makes them go to Liberty

2106
01:32:44,140 --> 01:32:42,349
stickers downtown to order colleague

2107
01:32:46,750 --> 01:32:44,150
seven seven eight seven three nine six

2108
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:46,760
two six Liberty stickers calm the

2109
01:32:54,250 --> 01:32:49,370
world's most dangerous stickers

2110
01:32:59,630 --> 01:32:57,620
when I had a heart attack at 42 I was

2111
01:33:01,460 --> 01:32:59,640
not sure what the future held but a year

2112
01:33:03,620 --> 01:33:01,470
later the doctors could find nothing

2113
01:33:05,630 --> 01:33:03,630
wrong with me and took me off all my

2114
01:33:07,790 --> 01:33:05,640
medication what did I do

2115
01:33:09,950 --> 01:33:07,800
I took a herbal mixture of garlic

2116
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:09,960
cayenne and a few other herbs mixed in

2117
01:33:15,170 --> 01:33:12,810
liquid form I now call this extender

2118
01:33:17,150 --> 01:33:15,180
white I would have never believed that a

2119
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:17,160
few simple herbs could actually change

2120
01:33:21,710 --> 01:33:19,890
my life like they did now it's your turn

2121
01:33:28,580 --> 01:33:21,720
to see what the powers of garlic and

2122
01:33:30,980 --> 01:33:28,590
cayenne can do for you for only $69

2123
01:33:35,110 --> 01:33:30,990
liquid you two can begin on your path to

2124
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:35,120
better health for more information call

2125
01:33:42,260 --> 01:33:39,450
1-800 that's one eight seven seven nine

2126
01:33:44,340 --> 01:33:42,270
two eight eight eight two two or visit

2127
01:33:49,610 --> 01:33:44,350
our website at heart drop calm

2128
01:33:55,230 --> 01:33:51,830
America's number one source for

2129
01:34:08,750 --> 01:33:55,240
independent talk radio for over a decade

2130
01:34:28,630 --> 01:34:23,430
[Music]

2131
01:34:31,390 --> 01:34:28,640
we continue with Jerome Clark UFO

2132
01:34:33,729 --> 01:34:31,400
historian we're talking about UFOs

2133
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:33,739
history of UFOs separating UFOs from

2134
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:36,530
other paranormal phenomena the co-host

2135
01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:37,370
is Chris O'Brien

2136
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:39,710
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the power

2137
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:42,170
cast so let's look at some of the events

2138
01:34:46,390 --> 01:34:44,570
that are attached to UFOs and see what

2139
01:34:48,940 --> 01:34:46,400
you think about them was there crash at

2140
01:34:52,690 --> 01:34:48,950
Roswell did our government recover

2141
01:34:56,080 --> 01:34:52,700
evidence of this crash UFO well I'm

2142
01:34:57,970 --> 01:34:56,090
probably one of the handful of agnostics

2143
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,980
on that subject well you know there are

2144
01:35:01,660 --> 01:34:59,360
a lot of those more than you think

2145
01:35:03,100 --> 01:35:01,670
oh good there should be because it seems

2146
01:35:06,820 --> 01:35:03,110
to me that's about all you can do with

2147
01:35:09,070 --> 01:35:06,830
that is say that mmhmm yeah this this is

2148
01:35:11,979 --> 01:35:09,080
interesting and and this is false

2149
01:35:14,140 --> 01:35:11,989
Demond stably false and the problem I

2150
01:35:16,420 --> 01:35:14,150
have with with the Roswell story and I

2151
01:35:18,729 --> 01:35:16,430
and I have a lot of respect for the

2152
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:18,739
investigators who put a lot of time in

2153
01:35:23,020 --> 01:35:20,570
on this you know the Kevin Randall's and

2154
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:23,030
Don Schmidt's Tom Carey Stan treatments

2155
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:25,250
people like that I really admire their

2156
01:35:29,890 --> 01:35:27,410
work and I think they've shown that

2157
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:29,900
there's a real historical mystery here

2158
01:35:36,820 --> 01:35:33,920
the problem is that the Roswell incident

2159
01:35:39,610 --> 01:35:36,830
is ordinarily thought of that is

2160
01:35:42,100 --> 01:35:39,620
wreckage and bodies it's not part of

2161
01:35:44,410 --> 01:35:42,110
history you could hide the event itself

2162
01:35:46,540 --> 01:35:44,420
you could put the bodies in the wreckage

2163
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:46,550
and storage and put a lot of guards

2164
01:35:50,170 --> 01:35:48,890
around them and threaten people who you

2165
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:50,180
know we're there and wanted to talk

2166
01:35:55,390 --> 01:35:52,489
about it yes that could happen but you

2167
01:35:58,959 --> 01:35:55,400
couldn't hide it from me history that

2168
01:36:02,590 --> 01:35:58,969
this would be something in history that

2169
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,600
would leave a big mark that you could

2170
01:36:07,510 --> 01:36:04,400
hide the story about the crash in the

2171
01:36:09,420 --> 01:36:07,520
bodies but you couldn't hide what

2172
01:36:11,950 --> 01:36:09,430
followed from that for example

2173
01:36:13,780 --> 01:36:11,960
extraordinary technological advancement

2174
01:36:17,110 --> 01:36:13,790
changes in the national defense policy

2175
01:36:19,959 --> 01:36:17,120
and so on there's no evidence that that

2176
01:36:22,750 --> 01:36:19,969
every attempt to to it attach something

2177
01:36:26,229 --> 01:36:22,760
of technological or political or

2178
01:36:28,810 --> 01:36:26,239
international or defense significance to

2179
01:36:29,579 --> 01:36:28,820
the crash of a UFO embodies it can't be

2180
01:36:30,929 --> 01:36:29,589
demonstrated

2181
01:36:33,179 --> 01:36:30,939
yeah but there's also the other question

2182
01:36:35,819 --> 01:36:33,189
is if we have this evidence of greatly

2183
01:36:37,469 --> 01:36:35,829
advanced technology we wouldn't know

2184
01:36:41,399 --> 01:36:37,479
what to do with it take your iphone and

2185
01:36:41,759 --> 01:36:41,409
go back to 1945 and have them figure it

2186
01:36:43,469 --> 01:36:41,769
out

2187
01:36:45,989 --> 01:36:43,479
well there's some merit to that argument

2188
01:36:47,790 --> 01:36:45,999
but I don't think that really is a

2189
01:36:49,559 --> 01:36:47,800
sufficient rebuttal to it because

2190
01:36:52,159 --> 01:36:49,569
something would have been learned and

2191
01:36:55,020 --> 01:36:52,169
also in would have even if you put

2192
01:36:58,109 --> 01:36:55,030
technological advancements aside there

2193
01:37:01,290 --> 01:36:58,119
is no evidence in anything that happened

2194
01:37:04,469 --> 01:37:01,300
in international relations in politics

2195
01:37:07,319 --> 01:37:04,479
and defense policy that indicates that

2196
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:07,329
the US government was aware suddenly

2197
01:37:12,929 --> 01:37:10,050
that the earth was being visited by

2198
01:37:15,929 --> 01:37:12,939
extraterrestrials of uncertain motives

2199
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:15,939
and uncertain capacity that would have

2200
01:37:20,609 --> 01:37:17,679
all kinds of national defense

2201
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:20,619
implications which could not be hidden

2202
01:37:24,750 --> 01:37:22,510
so those things couldn't be hidden even

2203
01:37:27,389 --> 01:37:24,760
if the original case could be so what

2204
01:37:29,129 --> 01:37:27,399
were these people remembering twenty

2205
01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:29,139
thirty years later or were their

2206
01:37:35,009 --> 01:37:32,649
memories just so influenced by ongoing

2207
01:37:37,709 --> 01:37:35,019
events and popular culture that they

2208
01:37:40,889 --> 01:37:37,719
added more into the story that maybe was

2209
01:37:43,409 --> 01:37:40,899
present originally I don't know and none

2210
01:37:46,290 --> 01:37:43,419
of us knows and some of this testimony

2211
01:37:48,029 --> 01:37:46,300
is indeed impressive and then intriguing

2212
01:37:51,919 --> 01:37:48,039
there's no question about that

2213
01:37:55,829 --> 01:37:51,929
it's just that Roswell like so much of

2214
01:37:59,729 --> 01:37:55,839
what we deal with in anomalistic really

2215
01:38:01,859 --> 01:37:59,739
exists in in testimony but nowhere else

2216
01:38:04,109 --> 01:38:01,869
you really have you have this really

2217
01:38:06,059 --> 01:38:04,119
interesting testimony from you know some

2218
01:38:08,609 --> 01:38:06,069
of these people seem completely since

2219
01:38:11,309 --> 01:38:08,619
they are possible and and their

2220
01:38:14,069 --> 01:38:11,319
testimony is hard to explain but that's

2221
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:14,079
all it is it's about his extraordinary

2222
01:38:21,059 --> 01:38:18,209
claim as you could possibly make tied to

2223
01:38:24,929 --> 01:38:21,069
virtually nothing but anecdotal

2224
01:38:27,209 --> 01:38:24,939
testimony and so logic demands that you

2225
01:38:29,009 --> 01:38:27,219
say well whatever happened it wasn't

2226
01:38:31,469 --> 01:38:29,019
what it was talked about what it was

2227
01:38:34,649 --> 01:38:31,479
claimed to be by these people but you

2228
01:38:37,199 --> 01:38:34,659
don't know that and so pretty soon it's

2229
01:38:39,959 --> 01:38:37,209
just a big muddle and so when people ask

2230
01:38:42,149 --> 01:38:39,969
me what I think about Roswell I answer

2231
01:38:42,930 --> 01:38:42,159
them as honestly as I can by saying it's

2232
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:42,940
the historic

2233
01:38:47,850 --> 01:38:45,250
cool mystery and leave it at that and of

2234
01:38:50,820 --> 01:38:47,860
course then maybe Colonel Corso didn't

2235
01:38:52,979 --> 01:38:50,830
go around feeding night goggles and

2236
01:38:56,340 --> 01:38:52,989
printed circuit inventions to private

2237
01:38:58,170 --> 01:38:56,350
industry no I don't think so what was

2238
01:38:59,820 --> 01:38:58,180
his thing there do you think it was just

2239
01:39:02,490 --> 01:38:59,830
the old guy trying to make some money

2240
01:39:05,220 --> 01:39:02,500
for his family before he went on to the

2241
01:39:07,740 --> 01:39:05,230
next life I I can't read his mind and

2242
01:39:09,390 --> 01:39:07,750
I'm not going to speculate all I can

2243
01:39:11,939 --> 01:39:09,400
tell you is that I remember talking with

2244
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:11,949
John Alexander who new course oh wow

2245
01:39:15,990 --> 01:39:14,290
didn't blade the story but thought that

2246
01:39:19,380 --> 01:39:16,000
of course what acted like a guy who's

2247
01:39:20,580 --> 01:39:19,390
completely sincere and I think that you

2248
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:20,590
know there are people walk around the

2249
01:39:27,090 --> 01:39:23,130
world who sincerely believe things that

2250
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:27,100
didn't happen in in their own lives so I

2251
01:39:32,580 --> 01:39:29,890
don't know all I really care to know is

2252
01:39:34,979 --> 01:39:32,590
that his story is just simply not true

2253
01:39:37,979 --> 01:39:34,989
and not possible not capable of belief

2254
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:37,989
and I think that it's really kind of a

2255
01:39:42,990 --> 01:39:40,330
sideshow to the basic Roswell

2256
01:39:45,630 --> 01:39:43,000
controversy which I think as I say we

2257
01:39:47,310 --> 01:39:45,640
means you know puzzling but it's just

2258
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:47,320
hard to come to any conclusion from it

2259
01:39:51,570 --> 01:39:49,930
what about these people who say okay we

2260
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:51,580
want the government this repeats what

2261
01:39:55,709 --> 01:39:54,130
Kehoe was asking in the 50s we want

2262
01:39:57,540 --> 01:39:55,719
disclosure we want the government to

2263
01:40:00,270 --> 01:39:57,550
tell us what it knows they must know

2264
01:40:03,810 --> 01:40:00,280
something oh I think that's probably

2265
01:40:06,300 --> 01:40:03,820
pretty futile gesture you know it's it's

2266
01:40:08,820 --> 01:40:06,310
based on a lot of presumptions about

2267
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:08,830
what the government knows what you know

2268
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:11,199
that I'm not willing to make myself also

2269
01:40:17,310 --> 01:40:14,530
I think that the disclosure movement is

2270
01:40:18,990 --> 01:40:17,320
really helped uncomfortably reminisce

2271
01:40:20,970 --> 01:40:19,000
it's in some ways of these of the

2272
01:40:22,770 --> 01:40:20,980
contactee both of nineteen fifties you

2273
01:40:25,350 --> 01:40:22,780
know based on the premise that there are

2274
01:40:28,220 --> 01:40:25,360
you know benevolent space beings here

2275
01:40:32,130 --> 01:40:28,230
and and the evil government is trying to

2276
01:40:35,130 --> 01:40:32,140
you know stop them and it to me is kind

2277
01:40:36,420 --> 01:40:35,140
of irrational you know so we're not

2278
01:40:38,750 --> 01:40:36,430
going to be seeing you speaking at the X

2279
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:38,760
conference anytime soon I don't imagine

2280
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:41,920
and they won't be asking you but the

2281
01:40:45,660 --> 01:40:43,210
other question of course being do you

2282
01:40:48,300 --> 01:40:45,670
think it's possible if et is here that

2283
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:48,310
any earthly government has had any

2284
01:40:53,729 --> 01:40:51,010
contact with them at all well you know

2285
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:53,739
rumors like that in I write I actually

2286
01:40:57,299 --> 01:40:56,650
write about on my encyclopedia and as a

2287
01:40:59,640 --> 01:40:57,309
folklore

2288
01:41:04,350 --> 01:40:59,650
the stories were circulating as early as

2289
01:41:07,589 --> 01:41:04,360
probably 1948 that Harry Truman had met

2290
01:41:09,510 --> 01:41:07,599
the aliens in Alaska and they had

2291
01:41:13,700 --> 01:41:09,520
discussed them this is before ladies and

2292
01:41:18,299 --> 01:41:16,830
and so this is you know there's a body

2293
01:41:21,149 --> 01:41:18,309
of folklore that's been around for a

2294
01:41:23,819 --> 01:41:21,159
long time and I don't have never seen

2295
01:41:26,220 --> 01:41:23,829
you know any evidence for it I would say

2296
01:41:29,069 --> 01:41:26,230
that it's a priori impossible because I

2297
01:41:31,020 --> 01:41:29,079
don't know but I could say that the no

2298
01:41:33,060 --> 01:41:31,030
persuasive evidence that ever emerged

2299
01:41:34,649 --> 01:41:33,070
anything like that has happened so

2300
01:41:37,620 --> 01:41:34,659
Eisenhower didn't go and meet the aliens

2301
01:41:40,799 --> 01:41:37,630
at that was another one we were in 1954

2302
01:41:42,359 --> 01:41:40,809
a famous one yeah but there's a whole

2303
01:41:44,399 --> 01:41:42,369
bunch of my when over the years that

2304
01:41:49,260 --> 01:41:44,409
there was one from Holloman Air Force

2305
01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:49,270
Base in New Mexico in 1964 that had UFOs

2306
01:41:54,689 --> 01:41:52,480
landing and and the landing being filmed

2307
01:41:56,970 --> 01:41:54,699
and the aliens coming on being met by

2308
01:41:58,200 --> 01:41:56,980
officers of Holloman and yeah I mean

2309
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:58,210
these stories have always been around

2310
01:42:02,669 --> 01:42:00,880
but you don't take any of them seriously

2311
01:42:05,939 --> 01:42:02,679
so that does that mean that the

2312
01:42:09,089 --> 01:42:05,949
government is just either uninterested

2313
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:09,099
because there's no overt threat or they

2314
01:42:14,279 --> 01:42:12,010
have simply not had any of this alleged

2315
01:42:16,919 --> 01:42:14,289
communication it's just stays out there

2316
01:42:18,810 --> 01:42:16,929
one step away one step beyond I think

2317
01:42:20,580 --> 01:42:18,820
that probably what the US government is

2318
01:42:23,279 --> 01:42:20,590
doing as we discussed earlier is

2319
01:42:25,649 --> 01:42:23,289
probably has some little agency that on

2320
01:42:27,870 --> 01:42:25,659
some level is monitoring you know

2321
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:27,880
puzzling UFO sightings and then meeting

2322
01:42:32,850 --> 01:42:30,610
periodically say well you know we've got

2323
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:32,860
this information and there was that case

2324
01:42:36,890 --> 01:42:35,110
and trying to make sense of it that's

2325
01:42:38,910 --> 01:42:36,900
probably about as close as they get to

2326
01:42:40,890 --> 01:42:38,920
to the actual with beautiful

2327
01:42:44,129 --> 01:42:40,900
intelligences what about the possibility

2328
01:42:46,500 --> 01:42:44,139
of man-made technologies being trotted

2329
01:42:48,149 --> 01:42:46,510
out and and people you know miss

2330
01:42:50,399 --> 01:42:48,159
identifying them as something as

2331
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:50,409
something alien or something off planet

2332
01:42:56,279 --> 01:42:53,489
do you think we have the technological

2333
01:43:00,359 --> 01:42:56,289
capabilities now to possibly put any

2334
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:00,369
graph technology operational or well I

2335
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:02,530
don't know about anti-gravity technology

2336
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:04,690
but I do believe that as our aviation

2337
01:43:09,509 --> 01:43:06,690
technology gets ever more sophisticated

2338
01:43:10,709 --> 01:43:09,519
and amazing yeah I think that you really

2339
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:10,719
do now

2340
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:14,050
have probably secret aircraft and are

2341
01:43:19,580 --> 01:43:17,050
mistaken for UFOs and I think that

2342
01:43:23,670 --> 01:43:19,590
that's unlike what it was the very first

2343
01:43:26,340 --> 01:43:23,680
UFO theory in the summer of 1947 when

2344
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:26,350
the modern UFO H began was that these

2345
01:43:30,150 --> 01:43:28,810
were secret military experiments well of

2346
01:43:32,459 --> 01:43:30,160
course we've known for a long time but

2347
01:43:35,100 --> 01:43:32,469
they weren't but now they're I think

2348
01:43:37,950 --> 01:43:35,110
there is some credibility to that is an

2349
01:43:39,420 --> 01:43:37,960
explanation for some reports yeah you

2350
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:39,430
know if I'd seen a stealth fighter back

2351
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:42,130
in let's say 78 79 flyover I would have

2352
01:43:52,020 --> 01:43:49,570
probably reported it as a UFO well we

2353
01:43:54,300 --> 01:43:52,030
have some questions from some of our

2354
01:43:56,130 --> 01:43:54,310
para cast forum members and I'll tell

2355
01:43:58,530 --> 01:43:56,140
you what we're gonna bring them up in

2356
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,540
the next hour of the power cast a

2357
01:44:03,870 --> 01:44:00,880
reminder here you can reach us you can

2358
01:44:06,450 --> 01:44:03,880
write to us news at the para cast

2359
01:44:09,780 --> 01:44:06,460
combats news of the para cast comm or go

2360
01:44:12,330 --> 01:44:09,790
to forum power cast calm that's forum

2361
01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:12,340
dot power cast calm where you can sign

2362
01:44:16,260 --> 01:44:14,320
up become a member of our forums give

2363
01:44:19,110 --> 01:44:16,270
yourself a user name get involved and

2364
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:19,120
then you have the opportunity like some

2365
01:44:23,790 --> 01:44:20,770
of our members are already taking

2366
01:44:26,189 --> 01:44:23,800
advantage of and that is to ask leave

2367
01:44:28,500 --> 01:44:26,199
questions for our guests and we try to

2368
01:44:30,570 --> 01:44:28,510
ask many of them Jerry Clark is our

2369
01:44:35,830 --> 01:44:30,580
guest Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm

2370
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:39,270
[Music]

2371
01:44:44,050 --> 01:44:41,950
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

2372
01:44:45,069 --> 01:44:44,060
listen to GCN programs on the goal I

2373
01:44:47,140 --> 01:44:45,079
have great news

2374
01:44:49,359 --> 01:44:47,150
gzn has created a Droid and iPhone

2375
01:44:51,669 --> 01:44:49,369
application and it's free just as easy

2376
01:44:53,589 --> 01:44:51,679
as going to GC and live.com click on the

2377
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:53,599
banner and download before you know it

2378
01:44:57,010 --> 01:44:55,010
you'll be listening to your favorite

2379
01:44:58,810 --> 01:44:57,020
hard-hitting GCN shows live around

2380
01:45:01,689 --> 01:44:58,820
demand right on your Droid or iPhone

2381
01:45:03,669 --> 01:45:01,699
24/7 and on the go so download the Droid

2382
01:45:05,979 --> 01:45:03,679
an iPhone app free by clicking on the

2383
01:45:07,959 --> 01:45:05,989
banner at GCN live.com thanks again for

2384
01:45:10,330 --> 01:45:07,969
listening to GC and live.com again

2385
01:45:12,430 --> 01:45:10,340
that's juicy and live.com we the people

2386
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:12,440
grow cotton wheat fabric engraving can

2387
01:45:15,669 --> 01:45:14,090
bed strips and fibers to protect from

2388
01:45:17,500 --> 01:45:15,679
counterfeit and carding to a private

2389
01:45:19,180 --> 01:45:17,510
bank having a led back at interest

2390
01:45:21,069 --> 01:45:19,190
forcing taxes to service debt this

2391
01:45:22,510 --> 01:45:21,079
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

2392
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:22,520
stating a central bank issuing the

2393
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:24,170
public currency is a greater menace to

2394
01:45:27,069 --> 01:45:25,280
the liberties of the people than a

2395
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:27,079
standing army Ted Anderson I'm placing a

2396
01:45:30,220 --> 01:45:28,250
free silver dollar in a book that

2397
01:45:33,490 --> 01:45:30,230
explains our monetary system call for

2398
01:45:36,580 --> 01:45:33,500
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

2399
01:45:45,100 --> 01:45:36,590
understand the system call 866 to 237

2400
01:45:47,020 --> 01:45:45,110
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

2401
01:45:50,350 --> 01:45:47,030
the pair cast the gold standard of

2402
01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:50,360
paranormal radio and now here's gene

2403
01:45:59,149 --> 01:45:58,760
final hour is taken much less than two

2404
01:46:00,770 --> 01:45:59,159
hours

2405
01:46:04,100 --> 01:46:00,780
but the final hour of the power cast

2406
01:46:06,109 --> 01:46:04,110
with UFO historian Jerome Clark we have

2407
01:46:07,850 --> 01:46:06,119
our co-host Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2408
01:46:11,299 --> 01:46:07,860
Steinberg you're in the power cast and

2409
01:46:13,609 --> 01:46:11,309
now it's time to open up the questions

2410
01:46:17,209 --> 01:46:13,619
from our members of the power cast

2411
01:46:18,890 --> 01:46:17,219
forums Chris well one one that I think

2412
01:46:22,189 --> 01:46:18,900
we've already kind of covered it but

2413
01:46:23,810 --> 01:46:22,199
it's an interesting language in the

2414
01:46:25,850 --> 01:46:23,820
question and I'll just read it verbatim

2415
01:46:28,069 --> 01:46:25,860
what about going toward Richard shaver

2416
01:46:29,750 --> 01:46:28,079
by way everywhere a Palmer keeping

2417
01:46:31,700 --> 01:46:29,760
underground with Mac Tony's and John

2418
01:46:33,919 --> 01:46:31,710
keel with ultra and crypto terrestrials

2419
01:46:36,290 --> 01:46:33,929
and jumping back to the top of the world

2420
01:46:38,359 --> 01:46:36,300
with these Google photos mr. O'Brien

2421
01:46:40,609 --> 01:46:38,369
just post posted here at Antarctica I'm

2422
01:46:42,439 --> 01:46:40,619
from Antarctica try that with the other

2423
01:46:45,109 --> 01:46:42,449
mysterious caves and cream O's forbidden

2424
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:45,119
archeology and you'll soon need a second

2425
01:46:50,330 --> 01:46:48,960
episode with mr. Clark just to bring you

2426
01:46:52,490 --> 01:46:50,340
up to speed on the photographs that he's

2427
01:46:56,209 --> 01:46:52,500
referring to I was made aware of these

2428
01:47:00,799 --> 01:46:56,219
very intriguing photographs of quite

2429
01:47:03,229 --> 01:47:00,809
large seemingly unusual looking cave

2430
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:03,239
entrances down in Antarctica there's two

2431
01:47:07,339 --> 01:47:04,530
of them one on either side of a

2432
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:07,349
Ridgeline they're about 60 meters high

2433
01:47:13,250 --> 01:47:11,690
and probably twice that in width

2434
01:47:15,020 --> 01:47:13,260
basically I think where our

2435
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:15,030
questionnaire is going with this though

2436
01:47:19,669 --> 01:47:17,520
is what are your idea of crypto

2437
01:47:22,459 --> 01:47:19,679
terrestrials for instance as Mac Tony's

2438
01:47:24,439 --> 01:47:22,469
dubbed them or John keels idea of the

2439
01:47:26,959 --> 01:47:24,449
old to terrestrial some sort of species

2440
01:47:28,399 --> 01:47:26,969
of possibly quasi humans that have been

2441
01:47:30,140 --> 01:47:28,409
here for thousands of years that are

2442
01:47:34,100 --> 01:47:30,150
hidden out of sight possibly underground

2443
01:47:36,290 --> 01:47:34,110
suboceanic do you have any sense that

2444
01:47:38,540 --> 01:47:36,300
there could be something to this line of

2445
01:47:40,459 --> 01:47:38,550
thinking well cryptic fresh girls and

2446
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:40,469
ultra crystals are not the same thing at

2447
01:47:45,080 --> 01:47:43,050
all the alter terrestrials are keels

2448
01:47:47,839 --> 01:47:45,090
named for demonic entities keel is

2449
01:47:49,279 --> 01:47:47,849
essentially a demonologist and that was

2450
01:47:51,950 --> 01:47:49,289
his name for demons which he thought

2451
01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:51,960
were behind UFOs a whole range of weird

2452
01:47:57,560 --> 01:47:54,690
phenomena crypts of stress chills were

2453
01:48:00,680 --> 01:47:57,570
there an idea that there's there's a

2454
01:48:02,330 --> 01:48:00,690
kind of goes back to lost continent lore

2455
01:48:04,879 --> 01:48:02,340
which I actually discussed in my new

2456
01:48:06,420 --> 01:48:04,889
book which is titled hidden realms it's

2457
01:48:08,790 --> 01:48:06,430
an old idea just at noon

2458
01:48:11,810 --> 01:48:08,800
that there was a secret race that lived

2459
01:48:14,970 --> 01:48:11,820
on the earth and somehow escaped

2460
01:48:17,340 --> 01:48:14,980
documentation or observation or the mass

2461
01:48:19,260 --> 01:48:17,350
of evidence of advanced technology which

2462
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:19,270
would have had to leave now I know I

2463
01:48:23,690 --> 01:48:21,730
don't believe it it's true but I do

2464
01:48:26,700 --> 01:48:23,700
think that it is the latest

2465
01:48:29,910 --> 01:48:26,710
manifestation of a whole lot of kind of

2466
01:48:33,030 --> 01:48:29,920
mean lost civilization or so there's not

2467
01:48:40,440 --> 01:48:33,040
an Indian sign inside the planet there's

2468
01:48:43,260 --> 01:48:40,450
not holes at the poles long-standing

2469
01:48:45,480 --> 01:48:43,270
kind of you know modern mythology that

2470
01:48:46,590 --> 01:48:45,490
are interesting for in themselves you

2471
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:46,600
know so it's a good intellectual

2472
01:48:53,700 --> 01:48:49,570
exercise to come up with ways to try to

2473
01:48:56,520 --> 01:48:53,710
discount all that my most recent book is

2474
01:48:58,500 --> 01:48:56,530
on that subject so anyone who wants and

2475
01:49:00,360 --> 01:48:58,510
all my thoughts can look up the book on

2476
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:00,370
Amazon or go in their local bookstore

2477
01:49:05,310 --> 01:49:02,770
whatever and ladies and gentlemen we

2478
01:49:07,230 --> 01:49:05,320
also put a link to the book on the power

2479
01:49:09,660 --> 01:49:07,240
cast com so if you click on that link

2480
01:49:11,670 --> 01:49:09,670
and buy a copy which of course enriches

2481
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:11,680
Jerry Clark and we want them to be very

2482
01:49:18,330 --> 01:49:14,890
rich and famous it also enriches us by a

2483
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:18,340
few cents okay here's another one for

2484
01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:20,050
you what are your thoughts on the binary

2485
01:49:23,850 --> 01:49:21,850
code from one of the witnesses from the

2486
01:49:25,530 --> 01:49:23,860
Bentwaters case which is currently

2487
01:49:27,780 --> 01:49:25,540
starting to make some waves out there in

2488
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:27,790
the field you know I don't really know

2489
01:49:31,410 --> 01:49:30,010
enough about the have an opinion I it's

2490
01:49:33,150 --> 01:49:31,420
one thing that you learn if you live

2491
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:33,160
long enough it's not to shoot your mouth

2492
01:49:38,750 --> 01:49:34,480
off when you don't know what you're

2493
01:49:45,210 --> 01:49:42,720
I constantly find myself with the taste

2494
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:45,220
of my shoe and my mouth sometimes I

2495
01:49:49,650 --> 01:49:47,050
should take your advice a little bit

2496
01:49:51,510 --> 01:49:49,660
more on that okay here's a good one this

2497
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:51,520
is this one we have not been asked I

2498
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:53,530
think none of our guests actually have

2499
01:49:56,520 --> 01:49:55,210
been asked this but but what are your

2500
01:49:58,710 --> 01:49:56,530
thoughts on the current crop of

2501
01:50:04,050 --> 01:49:58,720
ufologists that are coming up um

2502
01:50:06,660 --> 01:50:04,060
actually I'm rather encouraged i if you

2503
01:50:08,940 --> 01:50:06,670
can span that to you to afford ian's or

2504
01:50:11,460 --> 01:50:08,950
anomalous i think there's some very

2505
01:50:16,610 --> 01:50:11,470
sharp young guys coming up who really I

2506
01:50:20,100 --> 01:50:16,620
really like like tail payments from

2507
01:50:21,689 --> 01:50:20,110
Holland is to me just like he

2508
01:50:23,939 --> 01:50:21,699
gonna be one of the one of the great

2509
01:50:28,500 --> 01:50:23,949
anomalous on the next generation Chris

2510
01:50:31,109 --> 01:50:28,510
Beck there bunch of them that Chris Beck

2511
01:50:33,629 --> 01:50:31,119
is an English guy who's lived in Madrid

2512
01:50:35,729 --> 01:50:33,639
for many years he's about he co-authored

2513
01:50:38,939 --> 01:50:35,739
ballets most recent book he did the

2514
01:50:43,470 --> 01:50:38,949
research for the book into you know

2515
01:50:49,169 --> 01:50:43,480
ancient anomalies from 1879 back to you

2516
01:50:51,689 --> 01:50:49,179
know into well into the BCE era and yeah

2517
01:50:55,470 --> 01:50:51,699
there are some very sharp smart young

2518
01:50:57,990 --> 01:50:55,480
guys coming up and III feel really good

2519
01:51:00,780 --> 01:50:58,000
about that I didn't a few years ago but

2520
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:00,790
as I've encountered some of these young

2521
01:51:06,810 --> 01:51:03,010
guys who are intellectually very sharp

2522
01:51:09,649 --> 01:51:06,820
and really working hard to expand the

2523
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:09,659
database and analyze it intelligently

2524
01:51:14,280 --> 01:51:12,210
yeah I feel fairly good about the future

2525
01:51:17,310 --> 01:51:14,290
well one of the things that I've noticed

2526
01:51:27,270 --> 01:51:17,320
Jerry is that your average age at a UFO

2527
01:51:28,590 --> 01:51:27,280
convention now is up around 70 they can

2528
01:51:34,370 --> 01:51:28,600
actually get up and around without a

2529
01:51:37,229 --> 01:51:34,380
walker but how do we as as the older

2530
01:51:39,419 --> 01:51:37,239
generation and I count myself among you

2531
01:51:43,620 --> 01:51:39,429
guys even though I'm only just you know

2532
01:51:48,030 --> 01:51:43,630
I'm 50 ish baby that's all I'm just a

2533
01:51:50,970 --> 01:51:48,040
baby in this field yeah but what are the

2534
01:51:53,220 --> 01:51:50,980
best ways do you think to in instill

2535
01:51:55,979 --> 01:51:53,230
some excitement and still some Wonder

2536
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:55,989
and awe in the younger generation to get

2537
01:52:00,120 --> 01:51:57,760
them to be less jaded and cynical about

2538
01:52:02,370 --> 01:52:00,130
the subject and accept the pop cultural

2539
01:52:04,290 --> 01:52:02,380
versions that are being force-fed you

2540
01:52:06,540 --> 01:52:04,300
know them and get them to actually

2541
01:52:09,330 --> 01:52:06,550
become more involved in nuts-and-bolts

2542
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:09,340
UFO research what do you have any

2543
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:11,650
suggestions on how we can do that

2544
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:13,570
besides writing books and trying to

2545
01:52:16,410 --> 01:52:15,010
inspire people that way is there any

2546
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:16,420
other way that we can get people more

2547
01:52:21,870 --> 01:52:18,090
involved from the younger generation

2548
01:52:24,180 --> 01:52:21,880
well I think that that my answer is a

2549
01:52:25,970 --> 01:52:24,190
broad one but I'm quite serious about

2550
01:52:29,339 --> 01:52:25,980
and that is that if young people

2551
01:52:31,350 --> 01:52:29,349
continue to read books and continue to

2552
01:52:34,229 --> 01:52:31,360
be intellectually curious as

2553
01:52:37,500 --> 01:52:34,239
as our generation was early some of us

2554
01:52:41,250 --> 01:52:37,510
in that generation were and they'll get

2555
01:52:43,560 --> 01:52:41,260
to us you know you know books still

2556
01:52:47,729 --> 01:52:43,570
influence people particularly young

2557
01:52:49,649 --> 01:52:47,739
impressionable minds and in reading a

2558
01:52:52,169 --> 01:52:49,659
single book can be a life-changing

2559
01:52:54,180 --> 01:52:52,179
experience as it was for me and it may

2560
01:52:56,700 --> 01:52:54,190
have been for you guys yeah was for me

2561
01:52:59,520 --> 01:52:56,710
yeah you read repeal tour for tour

2562
01:53:02,879 --> 01:52:59,530
somebody like that barzakh valet or

2563
01:53:07,260 --> 01:53:02,889
allen hynek and you think you know this

2564
01:53:10,020 --> 01:53:07,270
is really interesting and I think that's

2565
01:53:13,620 --> 01:53:10,030
you know I you know I think that the the

2566
01:53:14,879 --> 01:53:13,630
model when when Jean and I were young as

2567
01:53:16,919 --> 01:53:14,889
I mentioned earlier in this discussion

2568
01:53:20,040 --> 01:53:16,929
there were always teenage UFO groups

2569
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:20,050
they don't exist and nobody even

2570
01:53:26,399 --> 01:53:22,480
remembers that they exist except those

2571
01:53:28,140 --> 01:53:26,409
of us who were there or David Halperin

2572
01:53:31,950 --> 01:53:28,150
will talk about in this new novel which

2573
01:53:34,169 --> 01:53:31,960
comes out next month and you know so the

2574
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:34,179
model changes I think like the model of

2575
01:53:39,750 --> 01:53:36,489
the organizations like the mutual UFO

2576
01:53:41,729 --> 01:53:39,760
network or move on or even Koufos which

2577
01:53:44,970 --> 01:53:41,739
is a different kind of organization for

2578
01:53:48,290 --> 01:53:44,980
more fun but still in the old model of

2579
01:53:50,879 --> 01:53:48,300
the UFO organization that probably is

2580
01:53:53,220 --> 01:53:50,889
disappearing the internet is taking over

2581
01:53:55,770 --> 01:53:53,230
a lot of things and the discussion will

2582
01:53:57,930 --> 01:53:55,780
continue on the internet but but but

2583
01:54:00,450 --> 01:53:57,940
print old-fashioned print books will

2584
01:54:02,850 --> 01:54:00,460
still come out and people who want to

2585
01:54:04,830 --> 01:54:02,860
read them or read them and they want to

2586
01:54:06,840 --> 01:54:04,840
read them on their iPads or in their

2587
01:54:09,300 --> 01:54:06,850
Amazon Kindle they'll read them but it's

2588
01:54:11,939 --> 01:54:09,310
still the book and it's still the same

2589
01:54:13,950 --> 01:54:11,949
basic content I'm betraying my age I

2590
01:54:15,990 --> 01:54:13,960
just love the old-fashioned book I

2591
01:54:19,290 --> 01:54:16,000
packed three of them arrived in my mail

2592
01:54:21,450 --> 01:54:19,300
today I just love the physical feel of a

2593
01:54:23,370 --> 01:54:21,460
book by the big love affair of my life

2594
01:54:26,129 --> 01:54:23,380
aside from you know my wife and my

2595
01:54:28,770 --> 01:54:26,139
children so on my friends there's been

2596
01:54:31,590 --> 01:54:28,780
books I love books I love the feel of

2597
01:54:34,379 --> 01:54:31,600
books and was books that got me here and

2598
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:34,389
it will be books or their equivalent to

2599
01:54:39,209 --> 01:54:36,850
get young people to where we are are

2600
01:54:40,979 --> 01:54:39,219
they're equivalent to where we are as

2601
01:54:42,899 --> 01:54:40,989
someone who covers personal technology I

2602
01:54:44,759 --> 01:54:42,909
kind of think that maybe one way this

2603
01:54:46,919 --> 01:54:44,769
will be dealt with is where

2604
01:54:50,219 --> 01:54:46,929
they will add an odor that emanates from

2605
01:54:53,669 --> 01:54:50,229
your evil meter so your Kindle your iPad

2606
01:54:56,789 --> 01:54:53,679
or your Samsung Galaxy Tab will present

2607
01:55:00,929 --> 01:54:56,799
the odor of paper and probably love that

2608
01:55:03,299 --> 01:55:00,939
idea I just invented this thing if

2609
01:55:05,909 --> 01:55:03,309
anyone wants to take advantage of this

2610
01:55:08,339 --> 01:55:05,919
you know I have very liberal terms I

2611
01:55:10,469 --> 01:55:08,349
will give you my concept you develop the

2612
01:55:13,889 --> 01:55:10,479
smellivision I tied to smellivision

2613
01:55:17,789 --> 01:55:13,899
never worked John Waters yeah I remember

2614
01:55:19,829 --> 01:55:17,799
that scratch and sniff sniff now they

2615
01:55:21,809 --> 01:55:19,839
still do that by the way in the women's

2616
01:55:24,809 --> 01:55:21,819
magazines for perfumes and stuff

2617
01:55:26,819 --> 01:55:24,819
we have Jerome Clark UFO historian the

2618
01:55:36,410 --> 01:55:26,829
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2619
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:38,580
[Music]

2620
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2634
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2635
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2636
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2641
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2642
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2643
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2644
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2645
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Anderson the federal debt and risk of

2646
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financial crises document the CBO has

2647
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published is a must read for every

2648
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:09,920
American covering the risk of continued

2649
01:57:14,379 --> 01:57:12,170
deficit spending coupled with an aging

2650
01:57:16,959 --> 01:57:14,389
population and the rising interest rates

2651
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:16,969
spell economic disaster it's imperative

2652
01:57:20,229 --> 01:57:19,010
that you get a copy of this document and

2653
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study it for yourself

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2655
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2657
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2658
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2659
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2660
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2661
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2662
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2666
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2668
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2669
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2670
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2671
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2672
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2673
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2674
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2675
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2676
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concerned about food for my family in

2677
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the event of an emergency and I know you

2678
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are too are you ready

2679
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don't wait for an emergency to happen

2680
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2681
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2682
01:58:57,120 --> 01:58:54,909
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2683
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has been in continuous operation canning

2684
01:59:01,859 --> 01:58:59,260
of finest and dehydrated foods other

2685
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companies just broker canned foods Ready

2686
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2687
01:59:08,370 --> 01:59:06,219
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2688
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2689
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2690
01:59:14,430 --> 01:59:12,219
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2691
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2692
01:59:17,850 --> 01:59:16,119
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2693
01:59:19,709 --> 01:59:17,860
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2694
01:59:21,540 --> 01:59:19,719
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2695
01:59:23,430 --> 01:59:21,550
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2696
01:59:25,649 --> 01:59:23,440
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2697
01:59:27,450 --> 01:59:25,659
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2698
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2699
01:59:33,060 --> 01:59:29,770
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2700
01:59:36,209 --> 01:59:33,070
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2701
01:59:39,810 --> 01:59:36,219
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2702
01:59:42,570 --> 01:59:39,820
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2703
01:59:45,390 --> 01:59:42,580
tired of searching for great talk radio

2704
01:59:53,340 --> 01:59:45,400
are you more important surged through no

2705
01:59:55,350 --> 01:59:53,350
we are the GCM radio network we want to

2706
01:59:57,360 --> 01:59:55,360
hear from you if you have a comment or

2707
02:00:00,390 --> 01:59:57,370
question about the pair cast send it to

2708
02:00:03,990 --> 02:00:00,400
news at the para cast com

2709
02:00:05,550 --> 02:00:04,000
that's news at the para cast calm and

2710
02:00:08,250 --> 02:00:05,560
don't forget to visit our famous para

2711
02:00:10,890 --> 02:00:08,260
cast community forums at forum dot the

2712
02:00:17,100 --> 02:00:10,900
para cast comm get in on all the action

2713
02:00:19,290 --> 02:00:17,110
at forum dot the para cast calm Jerome

2714
02:00:21,149 --> 02:00:19,300
Clark is our guest sees a UFO historian

2715
02:00:22,919 --> 02:00:21,159
of long-standing he's been there for

2716
02:00:25,890 --> 02:00:22,929
ever since they wrote the very first

2717
02:00:29,220 --> 02:00:25,900
song no he's written songs but not about

2718
02:00:31,290 --> 02:00:29,230
UFOs right that's Chris O'Brien's the

2719
02:00:33,959 --> 02:00:31,300
co-host I'm gene Steinberger in the para

2720
02:00:36,570 --> 02:00:33,969
cast Chris any more questions from the

2721
02:00:39,030 --> 02:00:36,580
peanut gallery well unfortunately we

2722
02:00:40,860 --> 02:00:39,040
only had the the question thread up we

2723
02:00:42,360 --> 02:00:40,870
started it yesterday so no we don't I'm

2724
02:00:43,590 --> 02:00:42,370
sure if it had been up another couple of

2725
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:43,600
days there would be about ten or twelve

2726
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:46,210
of them on there but now that's more

2727
02:00:50,040 --> 02:00:47,770
because he's gonna have to come back to

2728
02:00:51,780 --> 02:00:50,050
the power cast absolutely answer all the

2729
02:00:53,250 --> 02:00:51,790
questions raised by what he says and

2730
02:00:54,959 --> 02:00:53,260
let's look at also one of the

2731
02:00:57,720 --> 02:00:54,969
suggestions that leslie kane makes in

2732
02:01:00,330 --> 02:00:57,730
her UFO book and that is that there be

2733
02:01:02,669 --> 02:01:00,340
some kind of I guess government quasi

2734
02:01:05,729 --> 02:01:02,679
government organization that is formed

2735
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:05,739
to investigate UFOs what do we do to get

2736
02:01:10,290 --> 02:01:08,050
science to get involved in this not just

2737
02:01:11,910 --> 02:01:10,300
a few scientists but enough people to

2738
02:01:14,070 --> 02:01:11,920
really try to figure out what's going on

2739
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:14,080
well something transparent public I

2740
02:01:17,580 --> 02:01:16,810
think is kind of a caveat on that I'll

2741
02:01:19,770 --> 02:01:17,590
drink to that

2742
02:01:24,380 --> 02:01:19,780
my experience is that if you write a

2743
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:24,390
book or an article or a review that is

2744
02:01:29,490 --> 02:01:27,370
intellectually sound at least it isn't

2745
02:01:32,479 --> 02:01:29,500
doesn't sound crazy that it respects

2746
02:01:36,410 --> 02:01:32,489
reason and evidence and it's written

2747
02:01:39,180 --> 02:01:36,420
logically and coherently that people who

2748
02:01:41,430 --> 02:01:39,190
respond to that many of them scientists

2749
02:01:44,850 --> 02:01:41,440
or other academics you'll get a

2750
02:01:48,560 --> 02:01:44,860
favorable response over over my career I

2751
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:48,570
have had all kinds of dealings with

2752
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:51,130
academics and scientists and so on most

2753
02:01:57,300 --> 02:01:54,610
of them are not known in the active

2754
02:01:59,850 --> 02:01:57,310
participants in the controversy but do

2755
02:02:02,460 --> 02:01:59,860
have an all private

2756
02:02:04,230 --> 02:02:02,470
and they will read reasonable literature

2757
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:04,240
that does not insult their intelligence

2758
02:02:08,850 --> 02:02:07,810
that does not address crazy ideas or

2759
02:02:11,610 --> 02:02:08,860
anything like that

2760
02:02:15,480 --> 02:02:11,620
I sort of remember one time many years

2761
02:02:18,300 --> 02:02:15,490
ago must have been in their early 1980s

2762
02:02:20,730 --> 02:02:18,310
I went to see Roy Mackel at the

2763
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:20,740
University of Chicago and Mackel - those

2764
02:02:26,540 --> 02:02:24,850
who don't know him is probably the most

2765
02:02:29,300 --> 02:02:26,550
important

2766
02:02:32,010 --> 02:02:29,310
cryptozoologist with an academic

2767
02:02:35,160 --> 02:02:32,020
affiliation of his time and he was a

2768
02:02:37,290 --> 02:02:35,170
co-founder of the sadly now gone

2769
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:37,300
International Society of cryptozoology

2770
02:02:41,820 --> 02:02:39,850
but Roy was a fascinating guy with

2771
02:02:44,220 --> 02:02:41,830
wide-ranging interest in about three

2772
02:02:46,020 --> 02:02:44,230
brains he was he might be still alive I

2773
02:02:47,850 --> 02:02:46,030
haven't heard from in a while but he's

2774
02:02:50,250 --> 02:02:47,860
very very smart guy I'm very nice guy to

2775
02:02:52,770 --> 02:02:50,260
a lot of fun to be around anyway I was

2776
02:02:54,390 --> 02:02:52,780
visiting him in his office and Roy had

2777
02:02:58,050 --> 02:02:54,400
written a book or two a couple of books

2778
02:02:59,730 --> 02:02:58,060
on cryptozoology and he was looking at

2779
02:03:03,090 --> 02:02:59,740
his mail when I was there and he opened

2780
02:03:05,180 --> 02:03:03,100
up this airmail letter from France and

2781
02:03:09,330 --> 02:03:05,190
it was from a fellow scientist and

2782
02:03:13,230 --> 02:03:09,340
scientist said something like oh I wish

2783
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:13,240
I could do what you do I really admire

2784
02:03:17,970 --> 02:03:15,370
your work it sounds fascinating I'm

2785
02:03:19,260 --> 02:03:17,980
intrigued by one of these reports of

2786
02:03:23,190 --> 02:03:19,270
these strange animals that you've

2787
02:03:26,460 --> 02:03:23,200
investigated and so on and this guy had

2788
02:03:29,220 --> 02:03:26,470
spent his entire career as a biologist

2789
02:03:30,060 --> 02:03:29,230
dealing with some arcane issue involving

2790
02:03:33,570 --> 02:03:30,070
flatworms

2791
02:03:37,620 --> 02:03:33,580
and to him Roy Mackel was the ideal of

2792
02:03:40,440 --> 02:03:37,630
the adventurous scientists investigating

2793
02:03:43,650 --> 02:03:40,450
interesting questions opening up new

2794
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:43,660
avenues of knowledge and there are a lot

2795
02:03:49,560 --> 02:03:46,210
of scientists out there who really envy

2796
02:03:51,540 --> 02:03:49,570
those who dare go forth and wish they

2797
02:03:53,310 --> 02:03:51,550
could do it but don't because they know

2798
02:03:55,860 --> 02:03:53,320
it would endanger their careers and

2799
02:03:59,580 --> 02:03:55,870
their jobs and open them up to you know

2800
02:04:01,260 --> 02:03:59,590
attack and ridicule and you know there

2801
02:04:04,140 --> 02:04:01,270
are a lot of scientists out there or

2802
02:04:08,100 --> 02:04:04,150
privately curious and one day because

2803
02:04:11,600 --> 02:04:08,110
you can't put aside reality or truth

2804
02:04:13,879 --> 02:04:11,610
forever one day a future generation is

2805
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:13,889
this will take up the UFO phenomenon

2806
02:04:17,720 --> 02:04:15,690
it's inevitable it won't be in our

2807
02:04:19,669 --> 02:04:17,730
lifetimes it won't be in the lifetimes

2808
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:19,679
of most living scientists but it'll

2809
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:21,650
happen it'll I suspect it'll happen

2810
02:04:27,709 --> 02:04:25,170
sometime in the middle to the later 21st

2811
02:04:30,770 --> 02:04:27,719
century but it'll happen of course the

2812
02:04:32,990 --> 02:04:30,780
other question being Jerry that if et is

2813
02:04:35,629 --> 02:04:33,000
here would need tea at one point decide

2814
02:04:37,580 --> 02:04:35,639
yes we need to land now and make our

2815
02:04:41,300 --> 02:04:37,590
presence known if they haven't done so

2816
02:04:42,859 --> 02:04:41,310
already that could always happen we also

2817
02:04:45,439 --> 02:04:42,869
tried on the White House lawn they got

2818
02:04:47,629 --> 02:04:45,449
guys with stingers on the roof I think

2819
02:04:49,790 --> 02:04:47,639
that this what I am making the

2820
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:49,800
presumption that what we have seen the

2821
02:04:56,419 --> 02:04:53,610
last 60 years will go on and it will be

2822
02:04:59,030 --> 02:04:56,429
up to us to do something about it so our

2823
02:05:00,260 --> 02:04:59,040
least our descendants well how do you do

2824
02:05:04,189 --> 02:05:00,270
anything about it that's the other

2825
02:05:06,169 --> 02:05:04,199
question with them you try to

2826
02:05:09,379 --> 02:05:06,179
communicate all that you do see you do

2827
02:05:13,010 --> 02:05:09,389
science that's it I believe that if

2828
02:05:15,410 --> 02:05:13,020
science had been done to UFOs over the

2829
02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:15,420
last 60 years we'd probably know what at

2830
02:05:21,890 --> 02:05:18,570
least the core UFO phenomenon is I think

2831
02:05:25,790 --> 02:05:21,900
that all it's really probably lacking is

2832
02:05:27,649 --> 02:05:25,800
the will to do science they do the

2833
02:05:29,750 --> 02:05:27,659
funding they have the laboratories and

2834
02:05:32,300 --> 02:05:29,760
the personnel and the expertise

2835
02:05:34,459 --> 02:05:32,310
available I think the core UFO

2836
02:05:36,439 --> 02:05:34,469
phenomenon is not inherently

2837
02:05:39,439 --> 02:05:36,449
inexplicable I believe that it's

2838
02:05:42,410 --> 02:05:39,449
eminently solvable but it's complicated

2839
02:05:43,820 --> 02:05:42,420
and it because it's complicated it's

2840
02:05:47,359 --> 02:05:43,830
going to be expensive

2841
02:05:50,240 --> 02:05:47,369
but there is this barrier of rejection

2842
02:05:50,750 --> 02:05:50,250
and ridicule that stops science in its

2843
02:05:53,689 --> 02:05:50,760
tracks

2844
02:05:57,470 --> 02:05:53,699
Brad sparks estimates that in the entire

2845
02:06:00,020 --> 02:05:57,480
history of the UFO controversy a total

2846
02:06:03,020 --> 02:06:00,030
of six months of actual science has been

2847
02:06:06,109 --> 02:06:03,030
done that's that's scary of course we we

2848
02:06:09,169 --> 02:06:06,119
don't know to what extent the government

2849
02:06:12,620 --> 02:06:09,179
has been conducting scientific work on

2850
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:12,630
the on the inside out of the public eye

2851
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:16,290
well science is conducted secretly is

2852
02:06:22,820 --> 02:06:20,250
useless I mean it doesn't get us

2853
02:06:24,790 --> 02:06:22,830
anywhere and in this purpose has to be

2854
02:06:27,190 --> 02:06:24,800
extremely limited

2855
02:06:30,550 --> 02:06:27,200
provincial I mean science it has to be

2856
02:06:31,960 --> 02:06:30,560
an open Enterprise one would hope now of

2857
02:06:34,630 --> 02:06:31,970
course the other question here and will

2858
02:06:37,030 --> 02:06:34,640
maybe pursue this in this segment and a

2859
02:06:39,610 --> 02:06:37,040
little bit more the one question very

2860
02:06:41,440 --> 02:06:39,620
briefly mentioned but now maybe it's

2861
02:06:44,170 --> 02:06:41,450
time to explore it further UFO

2862
02:06:47,050 --> 02:06:44,180
abductions is that really et are these

2863
02:06:48,610 --> 02:06:47,060
people imagining this is the government

2864
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:48,620
doing some kind of deceptive work

2865
02:06:58,990 --> 02:06:55,330
causing these things to happen my lab I

2866
02:07:03,490 --> 02:06:59,000
think the the abduction phenomenon is an

2867
02:07:07,210 --> 02:07:03,500
experience anomaly and that it's you

2868
02:07:11,350 --> 02:07:07,220
know only superficially related to the

2869
02:07:14,580 --> 02:07:11,360
the UFO phenomenon of the ce2 that this

2870
02:07:17,710 --> 02:07:14,590
is the continuation of abductions into

2871
02:07:20,950 --> 02:07:17,720
supernatural realms now fairyland er

2872
02:07:24,850 --> 02:07:20,960
heaven or hell or whatever you know to

2873
02:07:27,070 --> 02:07:24,860
buy in succubi yeah yes that come out of

2874
02:07:30,630 --> 02:07:27,080
a long long human tradition of

2875
02:07:32,290 --> 02:07:30,640
Otherworld journeys I think that

2876
02:07:34,810 --> 02:07:32,300
abductions you know they're

2877
02:07:36,610 --> 02:07:34,820
unquestionably a genuine anomaly I mean

2878
02:07:38,260 --> 02:07:36,620
they're not purely imaginary they're

2879
02:07:40,690 --> 02:07:38,270
very puzzling and we'd only have an

2880
02:07:43,680 --> 02:07:40,700
explanation for them but they don't seem

2881
02:07:45,910 --> 02:07:43,690
to be events they're vivid frightening

2882
02:07:47,590 --> 02:07:45,920
experiences but they're not events

2883
02:07:51,250 --> 02:07:47,600
they're taking place in that kind of old

2884
02:07:53,170 --> 02:07:51,260
Imanol zone between you know the end of

2885
02:07:53,950 --> 02:07:53,180
individual awareness and the cultural

2886
02:07:56,650 --> 02:07:53,960
imagination

2887
02:07:58,810 --> 02:07:56,660
so therefore if ET lands tomorrow

2888
02:08:01,000 --> 02:07:58,820
whatever they look like and we somehow

2889
02:08:03,610 --> 02:08:01,010
communicate with them and we say why are

2890
02:08:05,260 --> 02:08:03,620
you abducting our population you feel

2891
02:08:08,920 --> 02:08:05,270
they'll say we're not doing that that

2892
02:08:10,540 --> 02:08:08,930
has nothing to do with us you know it's

2893
02:08:12,850 --> 02:08:10,550
possible it's possible to tell you that

2894
02:08:15,250 --> 02:08:12,860
we have jerome Clarke and he's joining

2895
02:08:17,830 --> 02:08:15,260
us on the para cast were happy to happen

2896
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:17,840
for the host show not as a eulogy for

2897
02:08:21,160 --> 02:08:20,090
someone long past he's author of a

2898
02:08:23,830 --> 02:08:21,170
number of books including the

2899
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:23,840
encyclopedia of UFOs and hidden realms

2900
02:08:29,050 --> 02:08:26,570
lost civilizations and beings from other

2901
02:08:31,300 --> 02:08:29,060
worlds his most recent book the co-host

2902
02:08:35,870 --> 02:08:31,310
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

2903
02:08:35,880 --> 02:08:40,060
[Music]

2904
02:08:46,280 --> 02:08:44,120
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

2905
02:08:48,770 --> 02:08:46,290
creatures from the darkest corners of

2906
02:08:51,610 --> 02:08:48,780
the mind roam the earth is there

2907
02:08:55,280 --> 02:08:51,620
evidence for mind control time travel or

2908
02:08:56,900 --> 02:08:55,290
devious government conspiracies find out

2909
02:08:59,930 --> 02:08:56,910
the inside scoop on the latest

2910
02:09:02,630 --> 02:08:59,940
conspiracies Paranormal Activity and at

2911
02:09:05,180 --> 02:09:02,640
14 phenomena when you subscribe to Tim

2912
02:09:07,970 --> 02:09:05,190
Beckley's conspiracy trial its

2913
02:09:10,610 --> 02:09:07,980
jam-packed with stories special book and

2914
02:09:13,010 --> 02:09:10,620
DVD promotions and the best news is

2915
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:13,020
absolutely free sent right to your

2916
02:09:19,820 --> 02:09:16,050
mailbox plus a bonus free email

2917
02:09:21,709 --> 02:09:19,830
newsletter sent out every Friday simply

2918
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:21,719
send an email with your name and address

2919
02:09:32,540 --> 02:09:27,690
to Mr UFO at WebTV dotnet that's mr. UFO

2920
02:09:38,540 --> 02:09:32,550
at web TV dotnet find out what they

2921
02:09:43,530 --> 02:09:41,189
there are many types of storable foods

2922
02:09:45,450 --> 02:09:43,540
but how about a superfood that contains

2923
02:09:48,870 --> 02:09:45,460
every nutrient that the human body needs

2924
02:09:51,419 --> 02:09:48,880
for survival 50% protein 300 milligrams

2925
02:09:53,340 --> 02:09:51,429
of potassium per ounce and calcium and

2926
02:09:54,899 --> 02:09:53,350
magnesium for your heart and bones with

2927
02:09:56,430 --> 02:09:54,909
many more nutrients found in this

2928
02:09:58,080 --> 02:09:56,440
incredible food source that the

2929
02:09:59,970 --> 02:09:58,090
government does not want you to have

2930
02:10:02,370 --> 02:09:59,980
this product is available in powder

2931
02:10:04,470 --> 02:10:02,380
seeds and oil and is shipped free to

2932
02:10:06,689 --> 02:10:04,480
your door in the US this product is

2933
02:10:08,729 --> 02:10:06,699
illegal to grow in the US but is legal

2934
02:10:10,800 --> 02:10:08,739
to import don't waste time thinking

2935
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:10,810
about storing food plan ahead and

2936
02:10:15,149 --> 02:10:12,610
prepare for yourself and your family now

2937
02:10:17,040 --> 02:10:15,159
and be in control of your destiny you

2938
02:10:19,169 --> 02:10:17,050
can save and invest your money but in

2939
02:10:21,300 --> 02:10:19,179
the end food will be your greatest asset

2940
02:10:26,100 --> 02:10:21,310
remember what the Word of God says in

2941
02:10:27,990 --> 02:10:26,110
Ezekiel 719 call 908 691 to 608 and see

2942
02:10:30,120 --> 02:10:28,000
what the powder seeds in oil can do for

2943
02:10:34,290 --> 02:10:30,130
you remember food will be your greatest

2944
02:10:38,580 --> 02:10:34,300
asset call 908 691 to 608 this product

2945
02:10:41,490 --> 02:10:38,590
does not contain THC call 908 691 to 608

2946
02:10:43,680 --> 02:10:41,500
today you know the Constitution like the

2947
02:10:46,910 --> 02:10:43,690
back of your hand you've read books

2948
02:10:50,240 --> 02:10:46,920
listen to podcasts attended lectures

2949
02:10:54,300 --> 02:10:50,250
surfed websites and watched videos

2950
02:10:58,459 --> 02:10:54,310
you've made Liberty your life's goal but

2951
02:11:03,810 --> 02:11:01,669
stickers from Liberty stickers calm

2952
02:11:05,640 --> 02:11:03,820
exercise your freedom of speech with the

2953
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:05,650
world's most dangerous bumper stickers

2954
02:11:12,149 --> 02:11:09,690
that's Liberty stickers calm but wait

2955
02:11:14,310 --> 02:11:12,159
there's more you can find Liberty

2956
02:11:15,510 --> 02:11:14,320
stickers wholesale get them for 99 cents

2957
02:11:16,890 --> 02:11:15,520
each when you put a hundred or more in

2958
02:11:18,870 --> 02:11:16,900
your shopping cart in any combination

2959
02:11:20,520 --> 02:11:18,880
sell them or give them away the great

2960
02:11:22,229 --> 02:11:20,530
for gun shows flea markets fairs

2961
02:11:24,780 --> 02:11:22,239
outreach and more earn extra money

2962
02:11:26,640 --> 02:11:24,790
promote freedom and spread the word beat

2963
02:11:28,470 --> 02:11:26,650
custom stickers labels or decals for

2964
02:11:30,030 --> 02:11:28,480
your organization or business Liberty

2965
02:11:31,860 --> 02:11:30,040
stickers makes them go to Liberty

2966
02:11:33,720 --> 02:11:31,870
stickers dot-com to order call eight

2967
02:11:36,270 --> 02:11:33,730
seven seven eight seven three nine six

2968
02:11:38,780 --> 02:11:36,280
two six Liberty stickers calm the

2969
02:11:41,660 --> 02:11:38,790
world's most dangerous

2970
02:11:44,180 --> 02:11:41,670
hello ad of the field calm we strive to

2971
02:11:46,430 --> 02:11:44,190
empower you with wild food preparedness

2972
02:11:48,410 --> 02:11:46,440
we get lots of amazing positive feedback

2973
02:11:51,170 --> 02:11:48,420
most of which we feature on of the field

2974
02:11:53,000 --> 02:11:51,180
comm here's a small sample of all that

2975
02:11:55,490 --> 02:11:53,010
people like you have to say about the

2976
02:11:57,140 --> 02:11:55,500
wild food experience it's inspiring for

2977
02:11:59,150 --> 02:11:57,150
many who are affected by the recent

2978
02:12:01,490 --> 02:11:59,160
downturn of the economy I already knew a

2979
02:12:03,229 --> 02:12:01,500
bit about foraging and edibles you take

2980
02:12:04,640 --> 02:12:03,239
it to a whole new level a thousand

2981
02:12:06,830 --> 02:12:04,650
thanks to you for all that great

2982
02:12:08,510 --> 02:12:06,840
knowledge it was empowering when I was

2983
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:08,520
in the Navy I went through a couple of

2984
02:12:12,500 --> 02:12:10,770
quick land survival classes thank you

2985
02:12:14,090 --> 02:12:12,510
for being an inspiration and for all the

2986
02:12:16,010 --> 02:12:14,100
work that you did I really appreciate

2987
02:12:17,720 --> 02:12:16,020
the depth and detail of the information

2988
02:12:19,460 --> 02:12:17,730
thank you so much much love and respect

2989
02:12:21,560 --> 02:12:19,470
to you from all of us here in the

2990
02:12:24,740 --> 02:12:21,570
boonies thanks again knowledge is power

2991
02:12:26,600 --> 02:12:24,750
and that power brings peace folks thanks

2992
02:12:27,170 --> 02:12:26,610
for letting us help you get back to

2993
02:12:29,750 --> 02:12:27,180
basics

2994
02:12:32,540 --> 02:12:29,760
read all of the testimonials at of the

2995
02:12:34,580 --> 02:12:32,550
field comm you can order online for you

2996
02:12:37,220 --> 02:12:34,590
and your loved ones or call one eight

2997
02:12:40,760 --> 02:12:37,230
eight eight fifty one eat free to share

2998
02:12:42,740 --> 02:12:40,770
in the secret the Jay Z and radio

2999
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:42,750
network providing the world with

3000
02:12:53,040 --> 02:12:47,010
hard-hitting talk radio G C and great

3001
02:12:58,169 --> 02:12:55,709
hi this is Clifford Cliff international

3002
02:13:00,870 --> 02:12:58,179
director for the mutual UFO network you

3003
02:13:11,500 --> 02:13:00,880
are listening to the podcast the gold

3004
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:14,630
we continue with Jerome Clark UFO

3005
02:13:19,250 --> 02:13:16,890
historian Chris O'Brien's the co-host

3006
02:13:23,720 --> 02:13:19,260
I'm Jean Steinberg you're in the power

3007
02:13:25,850 --> 02:13:23,730
cast and okay so therefore we shouldn't

3008
02:13:28,700 --> 02:13:25,860
be worrying so much about all the

3009
02:13:31,220 --> 02:13:28,710
arguments is or maybe we should worry

3010
02:13:34,100 --> 02:13:31,230
about using hypnotic regression to

3011
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:34,110
recall suppose lost memories whether it

3012
02:13:38,180 --> 02:13:36,090
has anything to do with UFOs or is

3013
02:13:40,850 --> 02:13:38,190
something else entirely

3014
02:13:43,400 --> 02:13:40,860
is that something that is something that

3015
02:13:46,370 --> 02:13:43,410
could be used in research well Eddie

3016
02:13:47,960 --> 02:13:46,380
Bullard did a study back in 1980s which

3017
02:13:49,550 --> 02:13:47,970
has been widely overlooked but he

3018
02:13:51,500 --> 02:13:49,560
mentions it in this new book because

3019
02:13:53,630 --> 02:13:51,510
myths and mystery of UFOs it just came

3020
02:13:55,460 --> 02:13:53,640
out a couple of months ago but hypnotic

3021
02:13:57,590 --> 02:13:55,470
aggression of course obviously that can

3022
02:14:00,590 --> 02:13:57,600
be abused but that doesn't seem to be

3023
02:14:03,850 --> 02:14:00,600
what's generating UFO abduction reports

3024
02:14:07,550 --> 02:14:03,860
and he had the brilliant idea to compare

3025
02:14:10,250 --> 02:14:07,560
abduction narratives that were recalled

3026
02:14:12,230 --> 02:14:10,260
under hypnosis versus those that were

3027
02:14:14,540 --> 02:14:12,240
recalled consciously and he found out

3028
02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:14,550
that there's no significant difference

3029
02:14:20,270 --> 02:14:17,490
and you also addressed in other

3030
02:14:22,250 --> 02:14:20,280
questions sometimes hear from skeptics

3031
02:14:26,510 --> 02:14:22,260
of abductions and phenomena claim that

3032
02:14:28,940 --> 02:14:26,520
while the hypnotist is feeding the

3033
02:14:30,830 --> 02:14:28,950
people leading questions so that they

3034
02:14:33,170 --> 02:14:30,840
get that's why the story sounds so much

3035
02:14:35,690 --> 02:14:33,180
like because the hypnotist comes with

3036
02:14:38,450 --> 02:14:35,700
expectations and draws those same

3037
02:14:41,330 --> 02:14:38,460
expectations out of the hypnotized

3038
02:14:42,980 --> 02:14:41,340
person's account well turns out that it

3039
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:42,990
doesn't really even matter who the

3040
02:14:48,110 --> 02:14:45,450
hypnotist is stories still end up pretty

3041
02:14:50,870 --> 02:14:48,120
much the same all that this tells us is

3042
02:14:55,070 --> 02:14:50,880
that there is an abduction experience

3043
02:14:57,200 --> 02:14:55,080
that exists outside hypnosis and that

3044
02:14:59,780 --> 02:14:57,210
hypnosis is probably just incidental

3045
02:15:02,030 --> 02:14:59,790
it's just a way of drawing it out but

3046
02:15:04,400 --> 02:15:02,040
that it's already there but it doesn't

3047
02:15:06,740 --> 02:15:04,410
mean that it involves interaction with

3048
02:15:09,260 --> 02:15:06,750
extraterrestrials they're just like all

3049
02:15:12,110 --> 02:15:09,270
experienced anomalies abduction stories

3050
02:15:15,530 --> 02:15:12,120
are interestingly consistent and there

3051
02:15:17,330 --> 02:15:15,540
are some inconsistencies also but but

3052
02:15:19,730 --> 02:15:17,340
they're just hard to explain the hard to

3053
02:15:21,920 --> 02:15:19,740
explain is extraterrestrial phenomena or

3054
02:15:23,100 --> 02:15:21,930
they're hard to explain is if you know

3055
02:15:25,470 --> 02:15:23,110
purely imaginary

3056
02:15:28,439 --> 02:15:25,480
phenomena they exist somewhere in that

3057
02:15:31,260 --> 02:15:28,449
is I say in that threshold liminal zone

3058
02:15:33,540 --> 02:15:31,270
of experience in almost all kinds of

3059
02:15:36,629 --> 02:15:33,550
other high strangest phenomena which

3060
02:15:38,910 --> 02:15:36,639
have no awful connection whatsoever so

3061
02:15:40,890 --> 02:15:38,920
we're not dealing with ET gathering

3062
02:15:42,570 --> 02:15:40,900
genetic material to hybridize a dying

3063
02:15:45,090 --> 02:15:42,580
race and the types of scenarios that

3064
02:15:46,740 --> 02:15:45,100
have you know kind of been formulated

3065
02:15:49,560 --> 02:15:46,750
over the years based on on these

3066
02:15:52,050 --> 02:15:49,570
testimonies no I you know I I think

3067
02:15:55,169 --> 02:15:52,060
you're referring to Dave Jacobs theories

3068
02:15:58,080 --> 02:15:55,179
and Dave is a very good friend for whom

3069
02:16:00,720 --> 02:15:58,090
I have great affection but I don't agree

3070
02:16:02,820 --> 02:16:00,730
that these are happening on any level

3071
02:16:05,430 --> 02:16:02,830
and I don't believe that an alien

3072
02:16:07,680 --> 02:16:05,440
invasion is imminent there's no one

3073
02:16:10,169 --> 02:16:07,690
that's good news no Dave does if you've

3074
02:16:12,840 --> 02:16:10,179
read his books he does know that an

3075
02:16:15,540 --> 02:16:12,850
alien invasion is imminent and I I don't

3076
02:16:17,399 --> 02:16:15,550
I don't just I just don't find it I find

3077
02:16:20,129 --> 02:16:17,409
that his material is very interesting

3078
02:16:23,669 --> 02:16:20,139
sometimes disturbing but not you know

3079
02:16:25,229 --> 02:16:23,679
compellingly evidence of real events now

3080
02:16:27,359 --> 02:16:25,239
what about events like the men in black

3081
02:16:30,120 --> 02:16:27,369
is that something that relates to the

3082
02:16:33,389 --> 02:16:30,130
realm of unusual personal experience or

3083
02:16:37,049 --> 02:16:33,399
are private people the government all of

3084
02:16:39,780 --> 02:16:37,059
the above involved well I guess I would

3085
02:16:42,690 --> 02:16:39,790
say all of the above are at least some

3086
02:16:45,830 --> 02:16:42,700
of the above I think that the core mana

3087
02:16:48,599 --> 02:16:45,840
black phenomenon is as any number of

3088
02:16:52,020 --> 02:16:48,609
commentators on men and black stories

3089
02:16:55,230 --> 02:16:52,030
have remarked and quite correctly the

3090
02:16:57,120 --> 02:16:55,240
original man black was the devil and the

3091
02:17:00,089 --> 02:16:57,130
man in black exists I mean you can hear

3092
02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:00,099
references to the the man in black and

3093
02:17:04,259 --> 02:17:02,410
old you know blues songs I mean this is

3094
02:17:05,690 --> 02:17:04,269
an image been around for long time also

3095
02:17:12,589 --> 02:17:05,700
Johnny Cash

3096
02:17:15,509 --> 02:17:12,599
man in black is a as a virtuous figure

3097
02:17:19,500 --> 02:17:15,519
out of teller who told us about life and

3098
02:17:23,580 --> 02:17:19,510
trials and tribulations and joys but in

3099
02:17:26,280 --> 02:17:23,590
for example in the folklore of the

3100
02:17:28,830 --> 02:17:26,290
African American South reflecting a

3101
02:17:30,660 --> 02:17:28,840
worldwide tradition but you hear this

3102
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:30,670
for example unlike Robert Johnson's

3103
02:17:36,960 --> 02:17:33,969
famous song crossroads blues where you

3104
02:17:40,560 --> 02:17:36,970
meet the devil who is a man in black

3105
02:17:42,750 --> 02:17:40,570
asteroids at midnight and that you get

3106
02:17:46,140 --> 02:17:42,760
magical powers from him but of course at

3107
02:17:48,960 --> 02:17:46,150
a great price and I think that somehow

3108
02:17:52,230 --> 02:17:48,970
this idea the man Black was first shows

3109
02:17:56,730 --> 02:17:52,240
up in a UFO like on test context and

3110
02:18:00,661 --> 02:17:56,740
about 1905 in Wales and you get this

3111
02:18:02,701 --> 02:18:00,671
kind of image that gets transplanted in

3112
02:18:05,220 --> 02:18:02,711
experience anomaly and they're always

3113
02:18:08,161 --> 02:18:05,230
showing up in some kind of menacing

3114
02:18:11,730 --> 02:18:08,171
context possessing secret knowledge

3115
02:18:14,220 --> 02:18:11,740
which you can get but only at great

3116
02:18:15,901 --> 02:18:14,230
price and peril and I think that's where

3117
02:18:18,840 --> 02:18:15,911
the men in black comes on that's also

3118
02:18:21,630 --> 02:18:18,850
they also figure hoaxes just plain

3119
02:18:24,180 --> 02:18:21,640
old-fashioned holds also help perpetrate

3120
02:18:26,911 --> 02:18:24,190
this lore like the man in black in the

3121
02:18:30,121 --> 02:18:26,921
more a highland hoax of 1947 which is

3122
02:18:33,121 --> 02:18:30,131
the first great UFO hoax you get them

3123
02:18:37,500 --> 02:18:33,131
and you know whatever great Barker did

3124
02:18:39,510 --> 02:18:37,510
with Al Bender's experience in 1953 and

3125
02:18:41,250 --> 02:18:39,520
you know you it's just it's just a war

3126
02:18:44,941 --> 02:18:41,260
that has and then you probably actually

3127
02:18:46,411 --> 02:18:44,951
have people who the FBI called on for

3128
02:18:49,201 --> 02:18:46,421
one reason or another or somebody from

3129
02:18:50,791 --> 02:18:49,211
you know a military intelligence agency

3130
02:18:52,920 --> 02:18:50,801
where you wear civilian clothing I'm

3131
02:18:55,260 --> 02:18:52,930
sure part of those some of those things

3132
02:18:58,081 --> 02:18:55,270
have happened and they've contributed to

3133
02:18:59,581 --> 02:18:58,091
the lore but no I don't think the men in

3134
02:19:01,710 --> 02:18:59,591
the short I don't think men and black

3135
02:19:03,180 --> 02:19:01,720
are really central to the awful question

3136
02:19:05,640 --> 02:19:03,190
was about the government getting

3137
02:19:07,500 --> 02:19:05,650
involved in spreading disinformation is

3138
02:19:10,260 --> 02:19:07,510
there such a thing do they care I think

3139
02:19:13,050 --> 02:19:10,270
that it's entirely possible for example

3140
02:19:15,510 --> 02:19:13,060
in the 1980s where you get a lot of this

3141
02:19:17,701 --> 02:19:15,520
these crazy stories circulating about

3142
02:19:20,340 --> 02:19:17,711
government in contact with aliens or

3143
02:19:22,710 --> 02:19:20,350
crashed saucers and you get people in

3144
02:19:25,111 --> 02:19:22,720
uniform telling these stories and you

3145
02:19:29,161 --> 02:19:25,121
wonder if there wasn't some kind being a

3146
02:19:30,331 --> 02:19:29,171
low-level PSYWAR experiment going on I

3147
02:19:33,000 --> 02:19:30,341
don't think that this is anything

3148
02:19:34,560 --> 02:19:33,010
hatched at a very high level but it

3149
02:19:36,180 --> 02:19:34,570
could have come out of you know a low

3150
02:19:38,941 --> 02:19:36,190
level elements of the Air Force Office

3151
02:19:41,581 --> 02:19:38,951
of Special Investigations I think that's

3152
02:19:44,640 --> 02:19:41,591
entirely possible like a really I know

3153
02:19:47,130 --> 02:19:44,650
it's yeah you might plead and things

3154
02:19:49,910 --> 02:19:47,140
like that yeah would you see it also in

3155
02:19:57,200 --> 02:19:55,460
possibly possibly you you would find it

3156
02:20:01,540 --> 02:19:57,210
in something like that but on the other

3157
02:20:04,400 --> 02:20:01,550
hand it may just be some idiot you know

3158
02:20:06,950 --> 02:20:04,410
preying on gullible you follow Jesus I

3159
02:20:09,650 --> 02:20:06,960
don't know I mean I I have no doubt that

3160
02:20:12,160 --> 02:20:09,660
the mj-12 documents are bogus and that's

3161
02:20:14,630 --> 02:20:12,170
really the extent that I care about them

3162
02:20:16,190 --> 02:20:14,640
where they come from it's just detail

3163
02:20:17,300 --> 02:20:16,200
it's something I'd like to know but it's

3164
02:20:19,880 --> 02:20:17,310
not an important issue

3165
02:20:21,679 --> 02:20:19,890
does that kind denigrate the credibility

3166
02:20:24,350 --> 02:20:21,689
of a person like Stanton Friedman who

3167
02:20:26,360 --> 02:20:24,360
adopts the mj-12 documents and Roswell

3168
02:20:26,719 --> 02:20:26,370
as things that we should be concerned

3169
02:20:34,820 --> 02:20:26,729
about

3170
02:20:36,740 --> 02:20:34,830
I think he's chewing on oh and gene it's

3171
02:20:41,030 --> 02:20:36,750
a chewable question I understand that I

3172
02:20:43,660 --> 02:20:41,040
just I'll just say that I don't agree

3173
02:20:46,700 --> 02:20:43,670
with Stan's emphasis on these things

3174
02:20:48,530 --> 02:20:46,710
okay to let it go at that that's fair

3175
02:20:50,540 --> 02:20:48,540
enough we understand we all have levels

3176
02:20:54,620 --> 02:20:50,550
of things that we accept and don't

3177
02:20:56,420 --> 02:20:54,630
accept now any popular sightings that

3178
02:20:58,460 --> 02:20:56,430
we're aware of that ended up being

3179
02:21:00,560 --> 02:20:58,470
hoaxes even though maybe initially they

3180
02:21:03,770 --> 02:21:00,570
were thought to be something that was

3181
02:21:06,350 --> 02:21:03,780
genuine well you know sometimes hoaxes

3182
02:21:10,520 --> 02:21:06,360
come to life I remember you know the

3183
02:21:13,719 --> 02:21:10,530
famous story from 1897 about the aliens

3184
02:21:18,320 --> 02:21:13,729
who took the calf out of the pasture and

3185
02:21:21,320 --> 02:21:18,330
Leroy Kansas and that story seemed

3186
02:21:25,250 --> 02:21:21,330
credible was widely published in the

3187
02:21:30,290 --> 02:21:25,260
literature in 1960s but miraculously I

3188
02:21:31,940 --> 02:21:30,300
found a a woman who's that relative I

3189
02:21:34,610 --> 02:21:31,950
think I can't remember was her aunt or

3190
02:21:36,710 --> 02:21:34,620
grandmother off the top my head who had

3191
02:21:39,500 --> 02:21:36,720
been there the day the hoaxer walked

3192
02:21:42,260 --> 02:21:39,510
into the house and told his wife about

3193
02:21:44,900 --> 02:21:42,270
this story he and his pals and Tollett

3194
02:21:46,880 --> 02:21:44,910
cooked up so you know I mean that

3195
02:21:49,340 --> 02:21:46,890
obviously there are hoaxes out there and

3196
02:21:51,020 --> 02:21:49,350
every once in a great while a story that

3197
02:21:53,900 --> 02:21:51,030
had seemed credible turns out to be a

3198
02:21:55,450 --> 02:21:53,910
hoax but you know the Air Force even the

3199
02:21:59,480 --> 02:21:55,460
Air Force acknowledged long ago that

3200
02:22:02,860 --> 02:21:59,490
hoaxes weren't really a big part of UFO

3201
02:22:05,350 --> 02:22:02,870
reporting but you always have to be

3202
02:22:05,890 --> 02:22:05,360
on the lookout for one because you never

3203
02:22:07,870 --> 02:22:05,900
know

3204
02:22:09,670 --> 02:22:07,880
Wien have of course lots of people like

3205
02:22:11,860 --> 02:22:09,680
gray Barker and Jim Mosley running

3206
02:22:14,890 --> 02:22:11,870
around with their Lost Creek UFO and

3207
02:22:16,870 --> 02:22:14,900
models of flying saucers and strings and

3208
02:22:18,551 --> 02:22:16,880
stuff like that well I think that

3209
02:22:21,220 --> 02:22:18,561
actually that they're they're much

3210
02:22:24,600 --> 02:22:21,230
better hoaxes than those rather

3211
02:22:26,950 --> 02:22:24,610
transparent one yeah with the Photoshop

3212
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yes I'll tell you we'll get into more of

3213
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that in a moment we have Jerry Clark the

3214
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co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

3215
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Steinberg you're in the Barry cast are

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wondered if you could make your car run

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what if this could also be used to

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to give athletes early recruiting

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did you know that you can be tracked and

3290
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theft in cyber crimes on the rise your

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passwords your identity and even your

3293
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physical location can be revealed to

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complete strangers would you like to

3295
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surf the internet anonymously and not

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have to worry about these threats well

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allowing you to browse the web send

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3309
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3311
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Patriot internet comm today on air

3318
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3319
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yes neighbors we do want to hear from

3320
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you if you have a question or a comment

3321
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about the power cast send it on to us

3322
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news at the power cast comm one more

3323
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time

3324
02:27:16,210 --> 02:27:13,310
that's news at the power cast comm we

3325
02:27:18,099 --> 02:27:16,220
read every letter we get we've come down

3326
02:27:20,800 --> 02:27:18,109
to this one more segment with Jerome

3327
02:27:22,870 --> 02:27:20,810
Clark UFO historian I'm Jean Steinberg

3328
02:27:24,730 --> 02:27:22,880
Chris O'Brien is the co-host ER in the

3329
02:27:27,250 --> 02:27:24,740
para cast so we were looking of course

3330
02:27:28,870 --> 02:27:27,260
about UFO hoaxes of course then we have

3331
02:27:30,880 --> 02:27:28,880
the Billy Meyer photos which are pretty

3332
02:27:31,570 --> 02:27:30,890
transparent too although a few people

3333
02:27:33,330 --> 02:27:31,580
believe them

3334
02:27:36,250 --> 02:27:33,340
well there are some pretty sophisticated

3335
02:27:38,530 --> 02:27:36,260
hoaxes you know hoaxes that people

3336
02:27:42,010 --> 02:27:38,540
really spend a lot of time and fought on

3337
02:27:44,349 --> 02:27:42,020
and sometimes you know you come upon

3338
02:27:47,740 --> 02:27:44,359
something and you can't prove it is a

3339
02:27:50,559 --> 02:27:47,750
hoax but your instinct tells you that it

3340
02:27:53,710 --> 02:27:50,569
is even if you can't prove it and I find

3341
02:27:55,990 --> 02:27:53,720
after you know years of Express with

3342
02:27:57,910 --> 02:27:56,000
this but you know it doesn't hurt to

3343
02:28:02,050 --> 02:27:57,920
listen to your instincts you know

3344
02:28:04,389 --> 02:28:02,060
they're not coming out of nowhere and so

3345
02:28:06,280 --> 02:28:04,399
I think that you know I think one of the

3346
02:28:09,610 --> 02:28:06,290
most successful hoaxes in your history

3347
02:28:12,160 --> 02:28:09,620
is the mj-12 papers you know you know

3348
02:28:14,050 --> 02:28:12,170
most people don't believe anymore but

3349
02:28:16,450 --> 02:28:14,060
for a while they did get a lot of you

3350
02:28:18,429 --> 02:28:16,460
know people who are ordinarily sensible

3351
02:28:21,340 --> 02:28:18,439
including me you know going and puzzled

3352
02:28:24,370 --> 02:28:21,350
and thinking wow what is this and then

3353
02:28:26,290 --> 02:28:24,380
as we came to know more about the

3354
02:28:29,679 --> 02:28:26,300
background and the personalities

3355
02:28:32,530 --> 02:28:29,689
involved and and also the utter the

3356
02:28:34,900 --> 02:28:32,540
contradictions the inability to divorce

3357
02:28:36,490 --> 02:28:34,910
fit the claims of mj-12 papers with

3358
02:28:38,170 --> 02:28:36,500
anything that could be documented

3359
02:28:40,389 --> 02:28:38,180
historically well then we came to

3360
02:28:43,320 --> 02:28:40,399
understand that this was a hoax but his

3361
02:28:46,389 --> 02:28:43,330
hoaxes goal is pretty good one and any

3362
02:28:48,340 --> 02:28:46,399
accounting of your folks as mj-12 papers

3363
02:28:50,469 --> 02:28:48,350
have to figure prominently and as you

3364
02:28:52,599 --> 02:28:50,479
pointed out you know you still have at

3365
02:28:54,730 --> 02:28:52,609
least one prominent ufologist and

3366
02:28:57,550 --> 02:28:54,740
treatment going around you know our

3367
02:29:01,570 --> 02:28:57,560
Ewing vehemently and relentlessly for

3368
02:29:05,950 --> 02:29:01,580
the authenticity of these papers so it's

3369
02:29:07,750 --> 02:29:05,960
a whole cool isn't it also difficult for

3370
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:07,760
somebody who maybe stakes a part of

3371
02:29:12,520 --> 02:29:09,770
their reputation on something it turns

3372
02:29:14,410 --> 02:29:12,530
out not to be true too backtracked

3373
02:29:16,990 --> 02:29:14,420
say you know what I was fooled by this

3374
02:29:19,690 --> 02:29:17,000
let's get on with our lives I think some

3375
02:29:22,511 --> 02:29:19,700
people do we do indeed have problem like

3376
02:29:25,301 --> 02:29:22,521
that I I don't doubt that stan is

3377
02:29:27,910 --> 02:29:25,311
entirely sincere but I've told him he

3378
02:29:30,700 --> 02:29:27,920
was kind enough to send me as the two

3379
02:29:32,950 --> 02:29:30,710
editions of his book on mj-12 and when

3380
02:29:36,461 --> 02:29:32,960
he sent them to me I said I'm going to

3381
02:29:39,850 --> 02:29:36,471
sit down and read these books as if I

3382
02:29:42,700 --> 02:29:39,860
have had no opinion about this I did

3383
02:29:45,600 --> 02:29:42,710
everything possible to wipe the slate

3384
02:29:48,551 --> 02:29:45,610
clean and read it with an open mind and

3385
02:29:51,610 --> 02:29:48,561
he still wasn't convincing to me and I

3386
02:29:55,600 --> 02:29:51,620
and in fact I was puzzled why Stan

3387
02:29:57,671 --> 02:29:55,610
thought this was convincing the in

3388
02:29:59,381 --> 02:29:57,681
history which I'm greatly interested in

3389
02:30:02,830 --> 02:29:59,391
there are all kinds of questions about

3390
02:30:04,720 --> 02:30:02,840
you know contested documents and so I'm

3391
02:30:07,540 --> 02:30:04,730
familiar with a lot of controversies

3392
02:30:09,640 --> 02:30:07,550
about how questions concerning contested

3393
02:30:12,251 --> 02:30:09,650
documents about historical events are

3394
02:30:14,921 --> 02:30:12,261
settled and the evidence that stan was

3395
02:30:17,680 --> 02:30:14,931
able to bring forth for the mj-12 papers

3396
02:30:19,720 --> 02:30:17,690
struck me is something that a serious

3397
02:30:21,970 --> 02:30:19,730
destroyin would have just dismissed out

3398
02:30:25,900 --> 02:30:21,980
of hand when I'm even risen to the level

3399
02:30:32,110 --> 02:30:25,910
of controversy ouch but it's you know

3400
02:30:36,761 --> 02:30:32,120
you know Sam has his views and and he's

3401
02:30:38,410 --> 02:30:36,771
not gonna change his mind we didn't even

3402
02:30:41,290 --> 02:30:38,420
talk about the mj-12 documents with

3403
02:30:43,450 --> 02:30:41,300
Tammany was on here last week but I

3404
02:30:46,120 --> 02:30:43,460
guess we kind of will save that for

3405
02:30:49,180 --> 02:30:46,130
another show Jean well I think I touched

3406
02:30:50,950 --> 02:30:49,190
on in passing but I felt you know if

3407
02:30:53,261 --> 02:30:50,960
we're gonna have that kind of discussion

3408
02:30:56,290 --> 02:30:53,271
we should have two people in the room

3409
02:30:58,001 --> 02:30:56,300
virtually arguing for and against it it

3410
02:31:00,251 --> 02:30:58,011
could be a Jerry Clark it could be Kevin

3411
02:31:02,320 --> 02:31:00,261
Randall someone targeting Kevin Randall

3412
02:31:03,940 --> 02:31:02,330
Kevin is really immersed in that stuff

3413
02:31:06,190 --> 02:31:03,950
he knows far more than I do

3414
02:31:08,051 --> 02:31:06,200
well definitely then we'll consider that

3415
02:31:11,020 --> 02:31:08,061
with Kevin Randall someone who would

3416
02:31:13,810 --> 02:31:11,030
argue on the side of it being a hoax and

3417
02:31:17,230 --> 02:31:13,820
then we see where the chips fall I think

3418
02:31:18,400 --> 02:31:17,240
around a little bit yeah but I think you

3419
02:31:19,930 --> 02:31:18,410
know it would be interesting to listen

3420
02:31:26,139 --> 02:31:19,940
to it but you know the fight has been

3421
02:31:28,719 --> 02:31:26,149
fought in print and those who follow the

3422
02:31:30,729 --> 02:31:28,729
beaten trend but pretty much no you know

3423
02:31:32,349 --> 02:31:30,739
I you know they both have their

3424
02:31:36,460 --> 02:31:32,359
distinctive rhetorical styles

3425
02:31:38,529 --> 02:31:36,470
particularly Stan and I don't know I you

3426
02:31:40,899 --> 02:31:38,539
know stan is a very bright guy a lot of

3427
02:31:43,210 --> 02:31:40,909
good things and I respect him but I just

3428
02:31:45,909 --> 02:31:43,220
wish that he would you know be more

3429
02:31:48,040 --> 02:31:45,919
willing to acknowledge as all of us have

3430
02:31:50,290 --> 02:31:48,050
to his mature adults that we can indeed

3431
02:31:52,479 --> 02:31:50,300
be mistaken even about things we feel

3432
02:31:55,719 --> 02:31:52,489
strongly about and I've certainly been

3433
02:31:58,630 --> 02:31:55,729
wrong many times in my life and you

3434
02:32:00,340 --> 02:31:58,640
policies and we just have to finally say

3435
02:32:03,069 --> 02:32:00,350
as you said lime you said earlier that

3436
02:32:05,590 --> 02:32:03,079
you know just say okay I was mistaken

3437
02:32:07,599 --> 02:32:05,600
let's move on no no I had to do that

3438
02:32:12,519 --> 02:32:07,609
with the San Luis Valley Crystal Skull

3439
02:32:15,880 --> 02:32:12,529
hoax that I ended up debunking and and

3440
02:32:17,859 --> 02:32:15,890
actually uh gleefully so I think we need

3441
02:32:19,899 --> 02:32:17,869
more people out there debunking

3442
02:32:21,670 --> 02:32:19,909
themselves and being super hyper

3443
02:32:23,620 --> 02:32:21,680
critical about their work and in their

3444
02:32:25,929 --> 02:32:23,630
thinking I think it's very important I

3445
02:32:28,779 --> 02:32:25,939
think there's some special satisfaction

3446
02:32:31,420 --> 02:32:28,789
in being able to debunk something that

3447
02:32:34,809 --> 02:32:31,430
you yourself originally advocate before

3448
02:32:37,359 --> 02:32:34,819
somebody else does yeah speaks well to

3449
02:32:38,889 --> 02:32:37,369
your intellectual integrity and if we

3450
02:32:41,679 --> 02:32:38,899
don't have intellectual integrity in

3451
02:32:43,630 --> 02:32:41,689
this what do we have yeah that's that's

3452
02:32:47,139 --> 02:32:43,640
that's a very major point right there

3453
02:32:49,870 --> 02:32:47,149
it's also very heavy part of it also to

3454
02:32:51,849 --> 02:32:49,880
be able to say I made a mistake let's

3455
02:32:55,269 --> 02:32:51,859
move on let's figure out what's really

3456
02:32:57,519 --> 02:32:55,279
going on and here's what I someone wants

3457
02:32:59,830 --> 02:32:57,529
to debunk UFOs they will take these

3458
02:33:01,949 --> 02:32:59,840
hoaxes and say yes see it's a hoax

3459
02:33:04,870 --> 02:33:01,959
therefore there's nothing but any of it

3460
02:33:06,790 --> 02:33:04,880
exactly well that's a baby in the

3461
02:33:08,260 --> 02:33:06,800
bathwater scenario which unfortunately

3462
02:33:10,540 --> 02:33:08,270
is too prevalent out there in the

3463
02:33:12,580 --> 02:33:10,550
skeptical community isn't unfortunate

3464
02:33:14,979 --> 02:33:12,590
then that a case like Roswell for

3465
02:33:16,719 --> 02:33:14,989
example becomes a linchpin of UFO

3466
02:33:18,819 --> 02:33:16,729
reality even though there are people

3467
02:33:22,479 --> 02:33:18,829
within the UFO field very serious people

3468
02:33:24,670 --> 02:33:22,489
like yourself who feels that it didn't

3469
02:33:27,010 --> 02:33:24,680
happen the way it's presented if the

3470
02:33:30,159 --> 02:33:27,020
state of the evidence available for the

3471
02:33:32,920 --> 02:33:30,169
Roslin's of the Rosalind should be we on

3472
02:33:34,540 --> 02:33:32,930
the sidelines of the UFO discussion that

3473
02:33:36,790 --> 02:33:34,550
there are all kinds of cases that are

3474
02:33:40,450 --> 02:33:36,800
far more puzzling far more evidential

3475
02:33:43,510 --> 02:33:40,460
you know far more to the point and Roz

3476
02:33:45,310 --> 02:33:43,520
why as well it's just a distraction it's

3477
02:33:47,760 --> 02:33:45,320
almost like the JFK assassination it's

3478
02:33:52,270 --> 02:33:47,770
become a paranormal event in the history

3479
02:33:54,550 --> 02:33:52,280
yeah yeah takes on a life of its own

3480
02:33:57,940 --> 02:33:54,560
before we continue with our lives Jerry

3481
02:33:59,950 --> 02:33:57,950
Clark very briefly what are your plans

3482
02:34:02,020 --> 02:33:59,960
for the next few years to kind of bring

3483
02:34:04,690 --> 02:34:02,030
out more information about UFOs maybe

3484
02:34:07,000 --> 02:34:04,700
help figure out what's going on well I'm

3485
02:34:08,950 --> 02:34:07,010
gonna continue my work and my thinking

3486
02:34:11,950 --> 02:34:08,960
and my research on experience in all

3487
02:34:14,440 --> 02:34:11,960
ways I'm deeply involved in historical

3488
02:34:17,140 --> 02:34:14,450
anomalies research early 20th century

3489
02:34:19,480 --> 02:34:17,150
19th century mostly and I will be

3490
02:34:21,250 --> 02:34:19,490
writing at least one more book on that

3491
02:34:23,380 --> 02:34:21,260
I'm working on the third edition of my

3492
02:34:25,570 --> 02:34:23,390
book unexplained I may be doing a book

3493
02:34:27,910 --> 02:34:25,580
on the history that he follows you

3494
02:34:29,290 --> 02:34:27,920
subculture for an academic press I've

3495
02:34:31,120 --> 02:34:29,300
got a number of things out there I'm

3496
02:34:33,880 --> 02:34:31,130
going to keep at it until I can't keep

3497
02:34:36,070 --> 02:34:33,890
at it anymore do you think looking at

3498
02:34:37,960 --> 02:34:36,080
all of it do you think that maybe the

3499
02:34:40,330 --> 02:34:37,970
fact that you couldn't get to the bottom

3500
02:34:41,860 --> 02:34:40,340
of the UFO mystery that maybe you wasted

3501
02:34:47,980 --> 02:34:41,870
some of your life what do you think oh

3502
02:34:50,740 --> 02:34:47,990
no I mean there were times you know if

3503
02:34:53,620 --> 02:34:50,750
you can't tolerate ambiguity you've got

3504
02:34:56,590 --> 02:34:53,630
to stay out of this field yeah if you

3505
02:34:58,780 --> 02:34:56,600
can live with uncertainty and and

3506
02:35:01,750 --> 02:34:58,790
constant intellectual challenge without

3507
02:35:03,190 --> 02:35:01,760
certainty of resolution you know just go

3508
02:35:04,900 --> 02:35:03,200
collect stamps or something

3509
02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:04,910
hey that sounds like fun actually give

3510
02:35:16,390 --> 02:35:13,850
it up now kind of mentality to be

3511
02:35:19,390 --> 02:35:16,400
durable here over the long run that's

3512
02:35:21,550 --> 02:35:19,400
what I'm trying to say leather skin tell

3513
02:35:24,910 --> 02:35:21,560
us about your current book once again

3514
02:35:27,790 --> 02:35:24,920
hidden realms lost civilizations and

3515
02:35:29,650 --> 02:35:27,800
beings from other worlds it's a very

3516
02:35:32,590 --> 02:35:29,660
interesting looking book as plenty of

3517
02:35:34,360 --> 02:35:32,600
color illustrations cooling old from old

3518
02:35:36,730 --> 02:35:34,370
science fiction magazines it's always

3519
02:35:38,740 --> 02:35:36,740
loved and a lot of great stories and

3520
02:35:40,510 --> 02:35:38,750
interesting questions about the

3521
02:35:43,180 --> 02:35:40,520
relationship of imagination to

3522
02:35:45,010 --> 02:35:43,190
experience it's a book as being new good

3523
02:35:47,469 --> 02:35:45,020
very well so I'm satisfied with it

3524
02:35:48,910 --> 02:35:47,479
mm-hmm and you have a website or

3525
02:35:51,220 --> 02:35:48,920
something where we can check out the

3526
02:35:54,220 --> 02:35:51,230
things that you do no no

3527
02:35:56,980 --> 02:35:54,230
I don't I I I'm just kind of allergic to

3528
02:35:58,720 --> 02:35:56,990
things like that so but but I'm all over

3529
02:36:01,661 --> 02:35:58,730
the internet he wants to read about me

3530
02:36:03,671 --> 02:36:01,671
on Wikipedia and other places so I'm not

3531
02:36:04,331 --> 02:36:03,681
where to find you yeah they know where

3532
02:36:06,371 --> 02:36:04,341
to find me

3533
02:36:08,801 --> 02:36:06,381
just as we found you and we're happy to

3534
02:36:10,451 --> 02:36:08,811
have found you again Chris O'Brien tell

3535
02:36:12,220 --> 02:36:10,461
our listeners more about the things

3536
02:36:15,220 --> 02:36:12,230
you're working on and where they can

3537
02:36:16,661 --> 02:36:15,230
find information well I'm looking for

3538
02:36:18,850 --> 02:36:16,671
this weekend again in the second of

3539
02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:18,860
seven cameras up on cell towers and

3540
02:36:22,990 --> 02:36:20,690
mountaintops in the San Luis Valley for

3541
02:36:24,850 --> 02:36:23,000
a 24/7 monitoring program that we're

3542
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:24,860
putting together and I also do have a

3543
02:36:29,501 --> 02:36:27,290
website our strange planet comm it is a

3544
02:36:31,810 --> 02:36:29,511
strange planet and it's our strange

3545
02:36:34,871 --> 02:36:31,820
planet and you can find out about all my

3546
02:36:36,631 --> 02:36:34,881
books and other things that I do and I

3547
02:36:38,711 --> 02:36:36,641
want to thank Jerry Clark really

3548
02:36:41,051 --> 02:36:38,721
profusely for being on the show and

3549
02:36:43,180 --> 02:36:41,061
being open and it's always a pleasure to

3550
02:36:46,001 --> 02:36:43,190
hear your you know inform point of view

3551
02:36:47,621 --> 02:36:46,011
and your critical thinking as this is

3552
02:36:51,041 --> 02:36:47,631
quite refreshing that I think this

3553
02:36:53,980 --> 02:36:51,051
people filled with the questionable

3554
02:36:55,961 --> 02:36:53,990
thinking so thank you guys have some

3555
02:37:03,650 --> 02:36:55,971
very good questions it was a pleasure

3556
02:37:08,060 --> 02:37:05,690
it says calculate the presentation of

3557
02:37:10,389 --> 02:37:08,070
making the impossible incorporated tune

3558
02:37:12,120 --> 02:37:10,399
in next week for a new adventure in a

3559
02:37:17,760 --> 02:37:12,130
para cast